Speaker 0 00:00:00 It seems like podcasters and really almost anyone creating independent media are often being told to niche down the conventional wisdom being that they'll have more success with a targeted audience. But as it turns out, nicheing down and appealing to wider audiences aren't always mutually exclusive
Speaker 1 00:00:18 When it comes to people moving here or just talking about things that are affecting us here in Durham that are relatable everywhere. You know, a lot of it really comes down to, um, what are the conditions under which I am working, and what are the conditions under which I want to work as a business owner, and what does that look like in the landscape of my local community that I'm living in? With the small businesses here are facing a lot of the challenges of small businesses elsewhere.
Speaker 0 00:00:44 Next, you'll hear how a visual brand storyteller uses her local podcasts. To connect with listeners from all over, my name is Stewart, and this is Audience, a Casto original series for podcasters in pursuit of producing better shows and uncovering the business that powers audio creators. So at Casto, we're all about working with independent creators and giving them the tools to help with their shows. For instance, our integration with Stripe allows them to accept payments directly from their listeners. There's no ad algorithm, commission fees or anything like that. It's simply a payment directly from the listener to the creator. Learn more about going to casto.com or by clicking on the link in the show notes
Speaker 1 00:01:30 Where you live should not affect your access to resources. And so, Honey and Hustle really for me, started as a way to say, you know, I've met all these great people. I've learned from them. Let me pass the mics to some other people who have been doing this way longer than me. I'd just gone full-time around the time, full-time into entrepreneurship, around the time that I started hunting hustle. And so I said, You know, these people have been doing it way longer than me. This is their only source of income. There's gotta be something that people can learn from them.
Speaker 0 00:01:56 That's Angela Hollowell, a visual brand storyteller and the founder of Angela h Studios based in Durham, North Carolina. She specializes in documentary style projects, usually focusing on themes like environmental justice, human rights and advocacy, often for organizations based in the South as a brand storyteller who mostly works in visual mediums, Angela turned her love of advocacy and entrepreneurship and to a video podcast that also streams on audio platforms. It's called Honey and Hustle, and she describes it as her love letter to small business owners. Episode topics include everything from discussions about affordable housing to business ideas, and a whole lot of stuff in between. And it's all told through the lens of a brand storyteller.
Speaker 1 00:02:43 I think, and I know this is probably a joke as old as time, but I think there is also this conception that brand storytelling in any shape or form is meant to make you go viral. It's meant to make, you know, you just have a bunch of leads and you know, a bunch of money coming in, and it's supposed to be this huge game changer. And I, I don't necessarily agree with that. Um, brand marketing in and of itself is not some silver bullet, and I don't preach that to anybody that I work with. I think brand marketing in any way that you decide to do it is really a part of an overall organizational goal, right? So it, it has to be done with purpose and it also has to fit, um, the organization that is using it. So, you know, one thing I always think about in my own business is like, Cool, I make videos.
Speaker 1 00:03:33 I put out a podcast, I do all these things to get inbound leads, but then what happens? You know, do I have this system set up in place for X amount of leads at a time? Do I have the capacity to handle X amount of workload? Um, do I have the resources to handle a certain number of clients? Right? So it's, it's also kind of, um, needing to be realistic about what your goals are and what your organization has the capacity, um, to do with that as a result of, of what you're putting out into the world, um, and how consistently you can put it out into the world.
Speaker 0 00:04:05 Yeah. The desire to go viral is peculiar to me for two reasons. One, it's kind of like, I, I don't know. I, I hope I never go viral. A lot of times when people go viral, it's not for great. It's usually, it's usually it's, I I I I don't think the internet's usually all that compassionate No. And understanding towards, towards folks that go viral. And then b i I don't think anyone really knows how that happens. Usually it's an accident and then even to the extent people can figure it out, it's all pretty ephemeral as soon as you figure it out. Whatever kind of like algorithms are behind making something go viral or, or get attention, uh, it's obsolete in, in two to three months versus what seems to be your focus through creative side. I'll even call 'em some of the hard skills that just go into making a video look good. That sort of thing transcends mediums. It stands to test of time and it's gonna be applicable in almost anything you do.
Speaker 1 00:05:00 Yeah, I think viral reality is such an interesting thing. I think, again, people think like, Oh, going viral means I get all these eyes on me and my business. So my organization when in reality, like again, like you said, you can't predict it, you don't know what's causing it. The best chances of going viral come when you are consistently putting out stuff, right? Not necessarily putting all your eggs in one basket on this one piece of content you think is oh so great. And then even then on the content that, you know, does go viral, is it what you wanna be known for? That's the question really. And truly at the end of the day, is it what you want to be known for? And, you know, there could be many things that you want to communicate through your content. So is there one piece of content that really just is more important than anything else? Probably not in the grand scheme of things. You know,
Speaker 0 00:05:49 It does seem more and more now that brands are getting into creating their own media. Uh, what have you seen that's worked well and maybe something that hasn't worked so well?
Speaker 1 00:05:59 Uh, one thing that's worked well is having good audio in a video. Uh, because stories are always gonna trump a good video. You can not have a nice flashy video, but it ha if it has no substance, it's probably not gonna resonate in Stick. Right? So I think, again, I think sometimes we get so lost in the sauce, if you will, of how can I make, you know, the, the best, most catchy, most, you know, eye catching video that we forget that or, you know, podcast or whatever it is that we forget that, oh, like this actually needs to have substance. This actually needs to have value for the people that are washing it. So that's always something that I think about sometimes that I get two in the weeds on an edit. It's like, in the greatest game of things, What is this gonna change for the person watching it? What is my nitpicking gonna change?
Speaker 0 00:06:42 You've got your own video podcast, and of course it's also available on all the audio streaming platforms as well, but it's also on YouTube, Honey and Hustle. I'm always interested with people who are relatively new to new to podcasting. Uh, what was your relationship with audio like prior to your own podcasting journey?
Speaker 1 00:07:00 Nonexistent for being a hundred percent honest.
Speaker 0 00:07:02 Wow. Really? Yeah. You never didn't listen to the radio, You know, No audio dramas, no podcast.
Speaker 1 00:07:08 Okay. Just kidding. I did listen to Radio <laugh>, but, uh, sometimes I would need it when the commercials came off <laugh>. So I mean, uh, yeah. And I, I did, I would say Does music count?
Speaker 0 00:07:21 Yeah. Well, let's, let's count, let's count music for the sake of the conversation, at least, you
Speaker 1 00:07:25 Know? Yeah. I mean, it's, it's short form audio, if you will, but yeah, I do, I do like music, but I mean, just really just talk radio or anything like that, or other audio podcast. I still don't listen to audio podcasts. Interesting. Even though I have a podcast. Yeah. I will watch a podcast. I watched video podcasts and I did have a couple video podcasts that I had watched previously starting my own, But yeah, Audio only, that was never like my bag. And it probably shows because my early episodes the audio was terrible,
Speaker 0 00:07:52 So. Well, who are some video podcasters that, that you followed?
Speaker 1 00:07:55 Uh, my first one that I came across I think was actually Matt Davilla. Um, Matt DLA had a show called The Ground Up Show that is no longer going, uh, but I think it had almost like 200 episodes. But I watched that show a lot. Loved it. Um, the Ritual Roll podcast, I'll wa I'll tune into that occasionally. I don't know if it counts as a podcast, but it's definitely a video interview. So Apple does a series where when artists release an episode, they'll have like an hour long kind of video interview with them talking about the album and the making of the album and their life is there making the album and, you know, their early influences that kind of, um, manifested themselves in the album. I really love that. I think that's his name, I think, is
Speaker 0 00:08:36 That same lo is that Za Low Zane? Yes. I like Same Mo a lot. He's great.
Speaker 1 00:08:40 He's like, I think he's like British or something like that. Yeah, he's from Australia. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and then like came Yeah, he's incredible. Like in terms of in interviewer inspiration, like Zane Loe is my goal, you know, just to be like laid back with a lop side of Beanie, just asking very insightful questions. Like, I've studied this person my whole life, you know, like that's my goal as a person to make it feel that, you know, organic and that laid back, but also that valuable and insightful just like casually, you know? And I think that's probably shows in how Honey and Hustle is because Honey and Hustle, while does a business podcast, you will literally never catch me in a pants suit on that duck on show ever. There's a very high chance that, you know, I drank a beer before doing this or after doing this, or maybe even during, um, recording it, but, you know, I wanted to feel laid back. I wanted to feel like you're just hanging out with two friends, just getting all the ins and outs of their story as a, as a, a business owner. And, um, yeah, those, I would say those three if I was gonna recommend those three for sure.
Speaker 0 00:09:46 Yeah. And, and I think you, you do a good job. I I can see the Zane Lowe influence now that you said that I wouldn't have necessarily thought felt that just because of the subject matter, But, but I like it because, you know, what Zane Lowe does so well is, you know, he's, he's getting artists very comfortable and a lot of times, especially celebrities and, and people whose work is critiqued in a very public way, a lot of times they're very guarded when they talk to a member of the press. And I think Zane Lowe has worked really, really hard to endear himself to where it's almost like, Look, look, you're, Yes, I am. Look, this is for Apple. It, it is a, it is, you know, something that a lot of people are gonna see, but like, I get it. We're, we're all, we're on the same wavelength here.
Speaker 0 00:10:29 And it's always fascinating to listen to your podcast cause you, you kind of have that kinship with people even if you haven't really met them before because you have similar experiences and similar interests. The second thing I was curious about is, and lemme let me kind of maybe preface my question with this. So, you know, where I'm coming from, I, I come from the world of Community radio and, and that, that, that's how I got my start. So the transition into podcasting was almost a no brainer. Almost didn't even really have a choice. So it was just like, well, making audio is the only thing in the world I know how to do. So if I wanna make a living, I've gotta do this. So the, it wasn't even really just like a choice that I was gonna get into podcast, and I just, I was doing it one day basically. When people come from other mediums still, I mean, you're, you're a visual storyteller and obviously there, there is video podcasting and, and you've said, you know, you don't do audio only, but I am curious why, why you chose to do this. What inspired you to make Honey and Hustle coming from, you know, a different medium entirely?
Speaker 1 00:11:28 So, I am originally from Alabama, and, uh, when I moved to Durham, North Carolina, one thing that I did to really just be in community and meet as many people as possibles, I did a lot of in person networking. So my grind for like three months when I moved here was I would get up, go to work in the morning, get off work, go to a networking event for like an hour or two, go home, eat, shower, go to sleep, do it all over again. That was my grand for like three months. At that time, I think I met almost 500 people, right? In Alabama, that would not have been an option. Um, and I'm talking like across the state, there was maybe one to two good networking events a month, right? So like, think about how much longer it would've taken for me to meet other creators, other business owners, other like-minded people and business resources, given that, given that information, right?
Speaker 1 00:12:22 And in my mind, where you live should not affect your access to resources. And so Hunting House really for me started as a way to say, you know, I've met all these great people, I've learned from them, let me pass the might to some other people who have been doing this way longer than me. I'd just gone full time around the time, full time into entrepreneurship, around the time that I started hunting Hustle. And so I said, You know, these people have been doing it way longer than me. This is their only source of income. There's gotta be something that people can learn from them. And so Hunting Hustle really started as, uh, I guess my love letter, you could say to small business owners around the us, particularly in the South, um, that were looking for information, looking for, you know, unofficial mentors looking for, you know, to hear other people's stories and how they did it right in.
Speaker 1 00:13:09 I think that's very different from me getting on the podcast and telling what I did and what worked for me, or having them tell you, this is exactly what you should do, this is what you need to do, this is what worked for me. Because the reality is everybody's story is gonna be different, but there's something in everybody's story that you can gain something from gle something from, and maybe apply in your own way to your journey and what you're doing and how you're going about, you know, trying to create a light that you love from your business. So that was kind of how Honey and Hustle got started. So I really didn't think about, Oh, I don't have the skills to do this, or, Oh, I've never done this before. It was really about, you know what, I'm gonna build this ship as I, as I drive this freaking boat, and we're gonna learn together and it's gonna be great. And that's how Honey Andel got started.
Speaker 0 00:13:52 Would, would you say that you were, were drawn to, to video podcasting just because you, you are just so immersed in visual storytelling that it, it would, does it just feel like maybe like a natural extension of, of your skill set and, and what you're already passionate about?
Speaker 1 00:14:08 Yeah. So I didn't feel like I had to necessarily invest in new things. You know, I think, you know, a lot of times new podcasters myself include, they think about, Okay, well what's, what's it gonna take for me to get started? What is the startup cost? Right? You know, you gotta buy Mike, you gotta buy, you know, editing software, if you buy editing software, all these things that can be hindrances potentially. But for me, I already had cameras. I already had some decent mics that I obviously didn't know how to use for two people interviews across the room, but I figured it out along the way. Uh, so I didn't ha I didn't feel like I had barriers just starting, for sure.
Speaker 0 00:14:42 Yeah, And I like what you said earlier, it, it really starts with the idea and the substance of, of whatever you're doing. The, the technology. It gets smarter as as time goes on anyway. And, and, and we get smarter, we get better at figuring out like what works and what doesn't. I, and I agree with you, I think a lot of people sometimes almost work backwards from where they want be. They're like, Let me, let me go and get this really intricate, like, complex setup and then, and then the, like, the good ideas will follow versus like, again, I think you gotta start with like the root of a good idea and, and let that evolve and let the, and, and the process will, will evolve with it. I jotted something down while I was listening to your podcast, and it's, it's gonna, it's gonna sound cheesy, but I'm, I'm still proud of it.
Speaker 0 00:15:25 Pod locally, think globally, and your, your podcast Honey and Hustle is, is very centered in Durham, North Carolina. A lot of the folks you're talking to are very local. You talked with one fellow named Tofa Thomas, a lot about like affordable housing, obviously. And I, I'm a North Carolina guy too, and it's ev I think most people in North Carolina know what's happening in Durham. We'll just call it gentrification because that's basically what's happening, right? I mean, lots of b businesses are investing a lot of money there. Wealthier folks are moving in, and the people who made Durham built it into the, into the great city and cultural center that it's, that it's always been, are are the ones getting left in the dust. And you talked with him about that. You also had on your podcast, um, another entrepreneur, her name's Joyce Spate, and she talked a lot about the, well, the crux of your conversation was empowering advice for women leaders, but she actually said something very poignant during your conversation, and we're gonna play a clip of it right now. And I think it speaks to the theme of Pota locally, think globally,
Speaker 3 00:16:26 The more that, um, people move here, unless those pockets of culture and those pockets of influence, like your artists, your musicians, your creatives are protected and have a space where they feel comfortable and welcome, the culture changes. And when the culture changes, the city changes. And that is what a lot of, um, our decision makers in government do not recognize. Yeah. What they then do is once they realize that it's gone, they try to remanufacture it. Yeah. And it's not authentic. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and we've seen this play itself out in all these different cities like Austin. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 0 00:17:13 <affirmative>, you know, when a lot of people first start out in, in podcasting, the advice they're giving is niche down or niche down, however you say it. Find that niche. And, and that's good advice, I think is at least as like a way to frame a creative project. But I think people take it too literal. And I, and I think, and you can correct me if I'm wrong here, but I, I get the impression that it would've been really easy for you just to say, Well, this is, this is a podcast about Durham, North Carolina, and it's gonna be so specific to Durham that only people who live in Durham will find it enjoyable. But you seem to, you seem to kind of balance that really well of, like, it's still, you're still bringing on people local to Durham. It's still a way of connecting people within the city, but what, what Joy was saying there would be as poignant for someone who lives in Austin, Texas or, or Portland, Oregon or San Francisco or, or any of these o other places. Is, is that something that you're keeping in the back of your mind when you do these interviews that like, you know, you want, you want it to be maybe relatable to people who might stumble across honey and hustle?
Speaker 1 00:18:15 Yeah. So just to give people a little background, I started hunting and hustle in Durham, first season one for season two, um, because the pandemic was still kind of, you know, raging and great, you know, going crazy. I did that virtually. I recorded that entire season virtually, and I had people from across the US And while that was cool, I really knew I wanted to get back to doing, you know, North Carolina stuff. And season three is all Durham, Raleigh, uh, Chapel Hill area people. And when I came back and when I asked people questions, you know, it's never, you know, what are some advice that would be relevant to another Durham, you know, entrepreneur, right? Um, and I think that clip really just illustrated, you know, we name some cities where gentrification is happening, but it's also something to think about for maybe small business owners who are in places that are up and coming, right?
Speaker 1 00:19:04 You know, what role am I, do I play in the local landscape of making this town what it is? What do I add to this community that has been developed and what can I add as it continues to grow and we have more people here? Um, and what does that look like? Right? What are some things that would be beneficial to this community that I can be a part of as a business owner? So I, I think, you know, and again, Durham, it's not the biggest city, but it's in a sizable metropolis here in a triangle. And, you know, when we think about, you know, I wanna move somewhere with more opportunity, or I wanna move somewhere with, you know, bigger market, or I wanna move somewhere where I have more freelance opportunities, for example, you have to also think about, okay, well what is a community that's there now and what is different about that community than where I live now?
Speaker 1 00:19:53 And what really am I saying when I say I want more opportunity or I want a bigger market share. Uh, so I think there, you know, again, when it comes to people moving here or just talking about things that are affecting us here in Durham that are relatable everywhere, you know, a lot of it really comes down to, um, what are the conditions under which I am working, and what are the conditions under which I want to work as a business owner, and what does that look like in the landscape of my local community that I'm living in? Right? Uh, because small businesses here are facing a lot of the challenges of small businesses elsewhere.
Speaker 0 00:20:26 And, and your podcast is just a great magnifying glass on on some of that. I, I am curious just more, this is more of like a, like from like the tech side of things. What are your thoughts on YouTube as a platform? Has it been, like, do you, do you typically find them easy to work with? Cause I I don't have any experience with it. I could, I could talk all day about Spotify or Apple Podcasts, but I'm, I'm curious from your, your perspective, what's YouTube been like for you?
Speaker 1 00:20:49 Um, I personally love YouTube. I like to say that I've been a YouTuber since before YouTuber was a word, and not in the sense that I've always been uploading videos, but in the sense that I've really just been, um, a lover and a consumer, and now thankfully a creator on the platform and have been fortunate to like really see it grow. Like I was on YouTube before it was purchased by Google. Let's just age myself right now, you know? Um, so I'm a part of that crowd. Um, I'm a part of YouTube. Before, like people were doing YouTube for a career and doing it to get monetized. They were literally in their freaking rooms with crappy video cameras with a blank wall, no set design, no lights, no expensive gear, no nothing, just a phone and pure comedy. And I loved it. And you know, now as a creator kind of seeing, you know, how YouTube has really been pushing the envelope, I do think for the creator comedy and people who do want to use YouTube to make a living.
Speaker 1 00:21:45 Love it. Great. Beautiful. Um, I love, you know, how you can have up upload, like default upload settings, so like, things that are always be in your descriptions, like affiliate links, links to your website, you know, a little description about your channel, what it's about. Yeah, I mean, personally, I know I sound like a little stand and somebody's gonna come in the comments like, Oh, you just saying that YouTube doesn't paying me, I make no money off YouTube. But I love it. I'm still gonna upload because I just love the community that YouTube has created. And quite frankly, I love how, even though I have a wide variety of things that I watch, like I watch Matt Velo, which is minimalism. I watch, you know, a lot of the Apple like album review stuff with Za Lowe, and, um, the other guys, uh, they're cool too. I didn't mean to rag on them. They're also cool. And, you know, I also watch photography, filmmaking stuff. You know, maybe sometimes I watch something at a, about a plant, but it always clocks me on the algorithm. Like, I, I just go on YouTube, like, some people go on Twitter in the morning and I just scroll. And I know after like one or two strokes, I'm gonna see something that I like. So for me personally as a creator and a consumer, a plus,
Speaker 0 00:22:51 Yeah, as long as we're aging ourselves, I, I remember before YouTube when I would get on like Windows Media player and go searching around for like concert footage and that and that type of thing, and oh man, it was, it was the best feeling in the world when you, when you found something that, you know, you actually liked. And, you know, within a few short years, of course now, now everything's on on YouTube.
Speaker 1 00:23:14 Yeah. YouTube is great. And I guess, you know, too for SEO purposes, you know, for people that care about that. But
Speaker 0 00:23:20 Yeah. Well, like, what would you say like honey and hustle's done for your business? Like, what has it, have you, has there been any like, maybe like cross like, uh, cross promotions for like Angela H studios or anything like that?
Speaker 1 00:23:32 Yeah, it's interesting that you say that. So, you know, when I was telling you about why I started it, it was never because I wanted to use it to push my business. You know, maybe if I was smart, I would've thought about that, but again, I wasn't thinking about me when I created this show. So it was very surprising to me when I did start to get business from it. And a lot of it came from one guest, um, not guest specifically working with me, but guest being like, Oh, we have the experience of working with Angela. She made this process so easy for me. I love the final product, and I'm gonna be the first to recommend you if I think of someone or meet someone that is looking for what you do. So that was interesting, number one. The other thing was a lot of people as well who do interview based podcasts, they think of it as a way to establish themselves as like an expert in their field, or as a thought leader, as the go-to guy for x, y, z by sitting next to people that other people trust.
Speaker 1 00:24:24 Um, again, didn't think about that, didn't care, it wasn't about me. Um, but it was very interesting to see that when people reach out to me, you know, sometimes they would say, Oh, I saw your episode with X and x and I really, I know them. I loved them. Loved your episode. I wanna talk to you about working on this. Right? So it, it kind of served its own purpose without me ever saying this. My name is Angela, I'm the founder of <inaudible> Studio, and this is what I do. I don't think I've ever said that on the show. I don't think I really ever talked about what I do on the show, honestly. But it's interesting that, that, uh, those things came to me as a result of the show. So that was something to think about.
Speaker 0 00:25:01 Yeah, kind of show versus tell, right? You don't have to sit there and tell everyone you're an expert. It'll, it'll kind of manifest itself through, through the work that you do. Do you wanna talk a few business things here? Uh, I've heard some sponsorships on your, on your podcast, correct me if I'm wrong here. I'm, I'm guessing that you work directly finding sponsors and then utilize like, da ai technology to, to put those into your podcast? Or how are, how are you getting sponsorships?
Speaker 1 00:25:27 Yeah, so some, uh, were like people that I knew. So like, believe it or not, Link is a company that's out of Birmingham. I lived in Birmingham for six years when I went to college. So that's how I kind of had the connection with the co-founders and, uh, was able to get that sponsorship on the show. And I did have one of the co-founders of Link on the show during season two when I opened it up to people outside of, um, the Triangle. So that was, um, an interesting thing that came about that was really cool. Um, one of them, manscaped, they found me on Twitter, talking shit on Twitter. That's what I get. But sometimes, sometimes good things come from that <laugh>. Um, so I will say, um, I haven't really pitched a sponsors, a lot of it has been just like organic. And I, I also at this point feel like that's how it should be.
Speaker 1 00:26:13 I should really be only working with brands that, you know, happen organically and it feels right and also recommending brands that I actually use. So I, I think that's very important and that's something I think about as I go forward. And I'm saying, Okay, well, you know, this show is picking up steam a little bit. I'm investing money into video editors, You know, what are, how can I get a return on that investment? And what are some of the partnerships that I want to, to have going forward? I think they definitely need to be centric to the small business owner community and tools that I actually used in my own business.
Speaker 0 00:26:45 So yeah, as someone who doesn't really, I don't really ever mess around with sponsorships for, for like my own personal work, I'm not opposed to it. A I just, I never really take the time to do it. B I'm probably not, like, I'm not popular enough to do it. And then, and then c there's always that, there is always that barrier of sponsorships that align with your values. And I think it's, I think it's one of the pitfalls of Dai technology. The technology's great. I actually, I love the technology associated with Dai. I, I don't always like the implementation of it because you might have someone who's got like a nutrition podcast and Pepsi or McDonald's is now suddenly sponsoring their podcast. It's really counterintuitive and it's an easy enough fix, I guess. But that doesn't really erase the fact that for a lot of listeners, the first time they heard, you know, Sarah's fitness podcast, McDonald's, there was a McDonald's at, at the very top of it. So like, I think that's a challenge that independent creators kind of have to reckon with is, you know, if, if you're gonna go the sponsorship route, and I am a big advocate for like, leave no stone unturned, if, if sponsorships helps you, you know, pursue your creative passions, then, then have at it. But yeah, I, I always, and I'm just kind of wondering aloud, like yeah, like finding brands that align with your sponsorships. Uh, it sounds like maybe you're just working with people you can vouch for and it it kind of works itself out.
Speaker 1 00:28:08 Yeah. Yeah. I would definitely say that's been the case for me. Cuz you know, like, again, I haven't pitched anybody and I don't think my show is big enough for that. And you know, there's still some things I'm working out with it, It's still very much a passion project, I would say. But, you know, a gang talking about like, you know, I think going back to the YouTube side of things, because this is a podcast that I did start specifically for YouTube. I didn't actually put the audio up and start putting it up until after I finished season one. So, you know, when I think about now, yes, I'm a video podcaster, but primarily I consider myself a YouTuber. And so when I think about the landscape of YouTube, you know, a lot of YouTubers, I didn't start off with 50,000 subscribers. They started off with zero, just like me and you.
Speaker 1 00:28:49 And so, you know, when they, now when they do hit that 50,000 subscriber work, now it's like every other video is sponsored. Maybe the sponsor's relevant, maybe it's not, but I'd never wanna fall into the trap of not recommending products or services that are not relevant. Right. And it's hard to do when maybe you see companies that are doing big ad spend like McDonald's, um, or even more likable companies like Liquid Death. Liquid Death spends a lot of money on podcast influencers and the way that they make it fit, it's like, well, everybody needs water to drink. You're talking a lot. You need water while you're talking. Why not drink Liquid Death? And then talks to people about why they should also drink Liquid Death <laugh>. Um, but it, it, but it's also like, okay, cool, you drink liquid depth, but like, what does that have to do with me as a listener other than hydrating me? Right? Um, so it, it becomes this thing about like, how, how picky can you be when there's money on the table too, when you know you need money to run your show or something like that. So I, I can understand it, but it's also, um, something to think about too as you grow, you know, if you are considering that.
Speaker 0 00:29:53 Well, we're at the part of the conversation now where I like to just give the floor back to you. Was there anything you think I should have asked that I haven't or anything that you thought about, uh, in our conversation that you wanted to share that you haven't got a chance to yet?
Speaker 1 00:30:08 Yeah, uh, one thing that you didn't ask me about, uh, or one the question that I don't feel like I answered completely was the question about the dynamic ad insertion. Um, so I personally don't use dynamic ad insertion, and I'm not, um, in our hurry to switch to a podcast host that offers that is because essentially the audio that I post is scrapped from the video, right? So I also make the video podcast in mind that people, some people are only going to listen to this on Spotify or Apple or something like that. And so it needs to be just as relatable to them and like feel like a good auditory experience as it does for someone watching. Right? Um, but with that being being said, uh, dynamic ad insertion for me is hard because once I put something in a video, it's not as simple as taking it out or putting something in its place, right? Um, and so that's something I think about too when I do things. It's like, you know, when people go back to listen to previous episodes and they hear something from Link, like a Link ad reader or something like that, um, it still needs to be as relatable then and relevant then as it does now. And so that's also something that I think about cause I can't take it out, you know, so it needs to be done well and it needs to be relevant.
Speaker 0 00:31:17 You know, at Casos we don't really, at least as of this conversation, we, we don't really have any kind of like, uh, Dai technology or, or anything like that. And like I said, I'm, I'm a big fan of the technology and I won't get into the weeds of like why I like it so much or like the ways I've utilized it on, on, on other platforms. But, you know, we're, we're, we're advocating really for creators to take ownership of, of their own platforms and, and not really giving up even that little bit of control. And there, there's all types of, there, there are other options I think people need to be aware of. You know, we're big on like crowd sourcing and, you know, getting, getting direct funding from listeners or subscribers or, or viewers or anything like that. So it's, it's, um, yeah, I think I, I think you, you think about it the right way because the other, the other part of Dai and you know, most people probably know this by now, and I've said it a hundred times on, on the show before, those, those CPM models are not made with creators in mind.
Speaker 0 00:32:16 They're not made to help that individual creator fund their projects. You know, you might chip away at some of the production costs at best, uh, unless you're, unless you're like, you know, already, already have a huge following. So yeah, it's the, i the technology's cool. I think the implementation and, and the execution of it, to me anyway, leaves a lot to be desired.
Speaker 1 00:32:36 Yeah, yeah, yeah, for
Speaker 0 00:32:38 Sure. Well, Angela, I really appreciate you, you being on here. The podcast is Honey and Hustle. It's on YouTube. If you type in Honey and Hustle, you can watch it there, check it out. It's great. You do a lot of your, uh, filming on location too, right? You go over to some of like, the coworking spaces in Durham.
Speaker 1 00:32:54 Yeah. And stay tuned. We might have a new space.
Speaker 0 00:32:57 Oh, all right. Well, Durham, Durham's full of them. It's, it's a wonderful city and it's a great podcast. Also available on your, uh, audio streaming platform of choice. Angela, if you stick around after the credits, I'm gonna get a podcasting tip from you. Uh, that would be helpful for our listeners.
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Speaker 0 00:34:08 And now it's time for this week's podcasting tip.
Speaker 1 00:34:12 Hey guys, my name is Angela Howwell. I am the host and producer of the Honey and Hustle podcast based largely in Durham, North Carolina. And if there's one podcast tip I have for you is to start, start dirty, start when it's not a finished product, start when it's not easy, but just get started, get used to hearing your voice and putting your voice out there and get used to being a part of the podcast community because you're here now and we're so happy to have you.