Speaker 0 00:00:06 At some point in your podcasting career, your growth hits a bit of a plateau. You can promote your podcast episodes more, maybe tweet more clips, or finally give it a go at LinkedIn, even get on the podcast, guests, marathon tour, and appear on as many shows as possible within a given month, both work, but both are temporary. Remember the most valuable part of a podcast is its audience. You want to create content that serves them and provides value with every episode, encouraging community that surrounds your podcast is a sure bet to extend your chances at increased podcast. Listenership. Sure. Community building takes as much effort as it does to build the podcast. But luckily we have a great guide with us on that journey today. Michelle Frechette the head of customer success at give WP and also the podcast barista at WP coffee talk has agreed to share her experience at building communities everywhere. She goes a marketer at heart, a podcaster and someone that knows what it takes to invest in a community. You're listening to the audience podcast, your home to stories and lessons for podcasters, looking to take their show to the next level for people just getting started with podcasting to brands and celebrities monetizing their audio experience. The audience podcast has it all, never missed another show by subscribing at castles.com/subscribe. That's cast those.com/subscribe. Let's talk to Michelle,
Speaker 1 00:01:28 Referring to myself as the Pollyanna do gooder of the community, because if I can help somebody, that's what I'm trying to do. So my day job, I'm helping people. I'm helping nonprofits around the world and my volunteer efforts. I'm working, volunteering with WordPress. I'm working on my own podcast and then also volunteering with big orange heart. And so, and I always tell people, my DMS are always open. If you need a resource, just hit me up through Twitter and I'll S I'll do what I can to help.
Speaker 0 00:01:54 And the common thread, I guess, at all, the brands that you appear at is a fundamental community. I mean, WordPress has a massive community. That's for sure. Big orange heart has a pretty big community in your building, your community, through the podcasts and various YouTube stuff that you do. At what point did you realize that every podcast should have a community attached to it? If I can even say that my words, not your words, you get the, you get the gist of it.
Speaker 1 00:02:23 Sometimes you learn as you go, because you don't even know what you're doing when you start. So like, when I started my podcast, it really was an exercise to see, do I know how to do this? Can I figure if I ha I was, I had been freelancing for years. Like if I had a customer who said, Hey, I want a podcast. What? I know how to help them. And so I thought, well, what would be a good title? And I was like, Oh, WP coffee tech is available. It's just a couple of friends, have a coffee. And so I, I traded, I do build websites, but I traded work and had somebody else build it for me. And because I was coaching at the time I coached her, she built my site. And then I was like, I did what you're supposed to do.
Speaker 1 00:02:59 I launch on a Friday, throw it all out there. The site was up for a little while and I was like, gosh, I probably should have a Twitter account for this. So people would know about it. I threw a Twitter account together, like at 10 o'clock at a Friday night and just kind of put it out there, retweeted it from my own account, which had less than 1700 followers at the time. And by Monday I had four people signed up to be guests on the podcast. And I was like, gosh, this might actually happen, but I'll probably have like 10 or 12 people, a little diacetyl death. Well, I've had, I've recorded over 140 episodes, 108 just went out today and it ha it didn't die.
Speaker 0 00:03:36 No, it certainly didn't. It's certainly, it's also a Testament. And maybe we can talk about this too. I mean, hopefully the premise of today's show is, is how podcasters out there can, can leverage a community or do some community building around their, around their brand. In fact, in the three part series I did about marketing your podcast, that is one of the most fundamental things I think we can do before we get to that. How did you, you were involved in a community, right? Which is sort of the inverse of looking at it. You're a podcaster. You start a community, you can help prop up your own efforts, but you were engaged in a community. Do you have any thoughts about how you can just break the ice for people listening? Like I tell people, jump in Facebook groups, jump in Slack channels. I know there's so much noise, but find one or two that you can really break into. Do you have any advice for folks on the fence about jumping into the community to, to build awareness for themselves?
Speaker 1 00:04:33 So I think the most important thing is you have to find the community where you're passionate, right? So if there's a need somewhere for, um, a podcast about pottery, but I'm not a Potter, that's not the space for me to be right. Or I'm just, I th I just bought a kill and then I want to get into this. So let's podcast that doesn't make any sense. You need to at least be passionate about the area. You have to have some knowledge about it. I'm not a developer. And yet I have a WordPress podcast, but I'm have to be a developer to ask developers questions. I don't have to be a developer to reach out to developers. So, but you do have to be engaged and you have to be passionate about that community that you want to engage with. So that's the first thing.
Speaker 1 00:05:11 And then you kind of do have to find where those people are, right? So whether it's a Facebook group, whether it's a Slack group, or even if it's finding Twitter, hashtags, that makes sense. Right. And looking to see where conversations are happening. If you want a podcast about something that nobody's talking about, you're probably going to have an uphill battle to get engagement. If you can figure out what people are talking about, your passionate about it too, and you can invite others to be part of the conversation. Then that's really the win-win for everybody, because you're able to build the community around that space, if you could engage people properly around it.
Speaker 0 00:05:47 Yeah. And that, that goes to podcasting itself too, because so many people that you might be listening to this episode right now and thinking, I don't really love the topic of my podcast. And that is going to be a huge thing. Because sometimes we look at podcasting, like I want to do that too. I heard, I heard there's gold in them. There are Hills. You don't love the podcast topic that you're talking about, where you've, you've forced yourself to talk about something, because you've seen like success from someone else. That's a big red flag, right? And, and you love WordPress, which is why you have a WordPress podcast, right.
Speaker 1 00:06:23 And even more than love WordPress. I love the WordPress community. So my podcast is different than a lot of other podcasts in that I have prescribed questions. I ask every single guest, the exact same set of questions. It sounds like it could be boring, but think about it. You and I will always have different answers to the same set of questions, because they aren't like true false. It's not multiple choice. It isn't an exam. But I ask people like, how did you get started? What's something, what's something you've learned. Who's somebody that you admire. And the conversation flows around that set of questions. And so I call it my podcast, the great equalizer, because I can ask somebody who's just started their first WordPress website and they can come in and answer all those questions. Or I could interview Matt Mullenweg, who was one of the founders of WordPress.
Speaker 1 00:07:05 And he's answering those same exact questions. And no matter who you are answering them, somebody else can learn from what you have to say. And so that builds community right there because people are listening to see, well, what does, what did this person say was their biggest mistake they've ever made, or what's this person's hidden talent and learning some of those things about people. But even bigger than that I think was that I didn't just start locally. I've actually, I opened it up all over the world. And so I'm interviewing people literally from all over the world. And I have people from India telling me all the time, you're one of the few podcasters who invites people from India onto your show, because everybody else is like pretty much America that they don't want to. They don't want to like open up their hours to people that are 13 hours ahead of them or something like that. But I'll meet people on a Saturday. I'll stay in work later, come in early, those kinds of things to meet people. And that's how you build that community is by being open to not just the community that is convenient, but the convenient community at large, and being able to hear people's inputs and getting the diversity and the representation there too,
Speaker 0 00:08:07 Marching down the road to discuss community and the value of it all. But let's just veer off just a little bit. I'm interested to learn how and why you formed the show with a certain set of questions, always interested to learn how people run their, their interviews or their story arc. So how did you end up on the certain set of questions, everyone? And I want to hear the pros and the cons between, between it.
Speaker 1 00:08:32 So I love inside the actor's studio with James Lipton and at the close of that, he always asks the same set of questions. If God exists, what do you want to hear and say, when you cross, when you go through the pearly gate, what's your favorite sign, but your least favorite sound. So he has the same series of questions that he always asks everybody. And I love the fact that he could ask somebody who was a TV show, like somebody that acted in friends, or he could act, he could ask somebody like Lawrence, Olivia, and they they're all answering those same set of questions. And since I'm not a developer and I didn't want to dive into, I didn't know how to form conversations around things like developer topics and things like that. I really wanted to keep it community centered so that I could ask a question and a developer could give a developer answer, or I could ask a question that somebody who's just learning WordPress could give their answer.
Speaker 1 00:09:19 And they all are just as valid as everybody else. And so the idea, like I called them the rapid fire questions at the end, like we did the kind of the deep dive in the middle. We kind of talked a little bit about your business or your niche. And then I do these rapid fire questions where I always say, I'll ask them rapidly. You can answer them as quickly, or as slowly as you want. And it's really fun to hear some of the different answers that people have given over the year for the different questions. One is like if you had, if you couldn't work in tech, what job would you like to have or what something you might like to attempt? And I've heard everything from teacher to Uber driver to waitress, to chef, to everything in between. And so it's just really fun to hear people in our community talk about things that aren't always WordPress related
Speaker 0 00:10:01 And you're a marketer at heart. So I guess one advantage that you've, might've already deploy with, with some of your marketing, your branding stuff is with this, you have all the same questions, which means you can, you can gather the answers and have like the top 10 of XYZ question, and you can actually start to build out almost like a little database of, Hey, do you want to know, come to my website and just listen to this answer for this particular question amongst my hundred plus interviews, which is really cool. No question. They're just kind of, kind of cool.
Speaker 1 00:10:35 It is kind of cool. I actually wish that I had started writing all those answers down to those kinds of things. Like when I asked, like, what are two or three must have plug-ins that you'd recommend to somebody building their own website? I wish I had written down all the answers because now I have like 140 hours worth of podcasts to go back and listen to, to clean up the information, unless somebody wants to intern with me in which case, let me know.
Speaker 0 00:10:58 Yeah. Hey, listen, I'll tell you, I switched to using de script the app of the audio editing app, the script. It turns all of your, and you edit the audio through text and that'd be a tremendous tool for you because then you can just search, go into each episode, just search for that same question, grab that answer, make your life really easy on that. Edit
Speaker 1 00:11:18 Just need a couple of months to actually go through 140 episodes to do that.
Speaker 0 00:11:22 Yeah, I guess that, that too. That's for sure. Let's get back to the community. How has, I mean, since you've interacted with so many different brands, big orange heart, of course I give WP and building your own presence. Do you have a different strategy at all on how you approach community building for any of these brands, given that maybe the demographics are different and the goals are different for podcasts and communities against all three of these brands? Do you have a different playbook each or is it all largely the same sort of thought process?
Speaker 1 00:11:56 Well, it's really different because for, for big orange heart, we're mostly communicating as a, as a community on Slack. And then of course, there's Twitter for everything. Forgive WP. We have a Facebook group and we're talking, talking there and in the customer success office, we actually call our customers. We get on zoom meetings with them. We're interfacing with them on a regular basis, showing them how to use, give, asking them how things are going. And then for the podcast, it's kind of like mostly on Twitter, but then also people Slack Slack me, or text me or any number of ways that people are getting in touch with me to talk about the podcast. So it really depends on the topic and where those people reside and how I reach out to them. But social media is huge. Social media is a huge way to engage community no matter where you know, where your community is, to be able to put information out there, gather information, run polls, ask questions, and engage people.
Speaker 0 00:12:48 I'm going to ask you a selfish question because I help folks here at Casos to be successful with their podcasts. One of the efforts that that I've deployed is an Academy. So academy.castles.com. If you're listening to this and you haven't jumped into the Academy, it's completely free. It's a bunch of lessons about, uh, podcasting, how you can become a better podcast or a bunch of resources there. But one of the things that I'm looking to do next is rollout a online. I don't want to, if I say what it is, it's going to reveal what the app is. And I haven't decided a hundred percent yet. So I'll say it's an online forum. It's not as archaic as that sounds. And it's a lot nicer than your typical forum. I just don't want to say what it is yet, because I'm unsure if I'm actually going to go through with it, but I'm going to deploy this online forum. Is it wrong of me to think of community as this tool that just solves communication? And now my work is done, like is my work done solving the community variable by just deploying a piece of software?
Speaker 1 00:13:52 I'm glad you asked that question. I used, I used to run some social experiments and it doesn't, I don't mean it to sound as like clandestine as it is, but I used to use Facebook and post questions that I would start
[email protected]. And then I would pose a question and I was community sourcing information, but it was not information I was using for anything other than to learn how people interact on social media. So I would ask the question right here and now tell us your favorite jelly bean. And a 200 people told me their favorite jelly bean. Like they could say strawberry or butter popcorn, or whatever, kind of deli, belly, or jelly beans that are, that they like. Another question I asked is, tell us your favorite pie. And almost 200 people respond to what their favorite pie. Then I, one day I said, tell me your favorite clean joke.
Speaker 1 00:14:39 And only five people responded. And so I started to learn how people interact on social media with crowd sourcing information. If you can peep number one, people love to their opinion. Everybody. I love to give my opinion, ask me, I'll tell you, but they want to be able to do it quickly and not sound dumb. So if I can ask you your favorite jelly bean, that's usually a one or two word answer. And if you want to tell me a story about why black jelly beans are terrible or let you love them. Great, you can do that too. But the majority of the people would respond with a one or two word answer. I've been doing the same thing now on Twitter using Twitter polls. And the same thing happens. People either just click the answer or they want to engage and tell me why their answer is the right answer.
Speaker 1 00:15:24 So when you use community in that way, and I don't mean using a negative sense of course, but when you engage with community that way you actually can get hive-mind type answers and you can start to crowdsource, not just information but solutions. And so when you, when you rely on a crowd, number one for information, but number two, you've empowered them to give their opinion, to lend their expertise. Most people want to do that in a way that builds themself, but also builds the community too. They want to provide something that's useful, even if it's their favorite jelly bean like, Oh, lash 170 people told her, I got to tell her mine too. So she gets good information, whatever it is. So if you can find people to engage in a new forum, for example, and it's the right people and everybody has the goal of the common good, then it's a great thing.
Speaker 0 00:16:15 Yeah, yeah, no, that's awesome. That's awesome advice. It's it's funny that you say that because we manage and this started well before I started working at Castillo's, uh, Craig, the founder had started it. I forget how many years ago, but it's the podcast hackers Facebook group. There's 2,400 ish people in that Facebook group. And it's fine. It's fantastic. There's a lot of newcomers there every now and again. I'll see veteran podcasters, really giving some deep dive advice. I try to dive in there and give some deep dive advice and recognize that I said, I recognize, I said, try because it is so difficult in this room, uh, of 2300 people that I don't have a connection to. It's not like I looked at everybody who applied. There's no real application process to really speak of other than like your standard, whatever Facebook questions that they give you.
Speaker 0 00:17:10 Yeah. Like the three questions. And typically what I'll do is like, if you didn't even answer one of those questions, like I'll be a good steward of my content. Then you don't get approved. Like that's baseline. Like you can't even hit yes or no on this. You know, you're probably not going to be, do good in here, which leads me to like, and I, I think you started to allude to it is how do you drive people to have meaningful conversations? Or is this just the challenge of humans? Like how do you get 2300 people into a room, 20 people into a room, 200 people into a room online and say, go ahead, have meaningful conversation. Like how do we actually do that? Or is it just difficult? Obviously it can be. And if you don't
Speaker 1 00:17:50 Have somebody in there shepherding the community, then it's going to die. It's going to just be the quiet place that people just forget even exists. So I do, what's called priming the pump. I'll, I'll go in there and I'll add polls are, I'll share information. Our story that I've found on the news on the news that's pertinent or something interesting happening in the community, or just ask questions that people can answer again quickly or not even sometimes. So for the gift community, for example, I might say, what word do you have on the link to your donation page? Because some people put, donate, some people would give, and some people would contribute or support us. And just little things like that, get people to interact. But one of the most important things to remember is that just because people aren't interacting doesn't mean they aren't paying attention.
Speaker 1 00:18:35 So you can have 2,400 people, maybe 30 of them are active. They're answering questions. They're posting in there probably 200 other people are actively listening and watching. And then another 2000 people are paying attention when something kind of peaks their interest. So we used to call them lurkers. I don't know if we still call them lurkers. This sounds kind of shady, but the truth is that you can be a part of a community without actively engaging in conversation for any number of reasons. You don't feel that, that you have something worthwhile to contribute. People are answering things that you've that well, they took my answer kind of thing. And so just because you've built a community that, that a lot of people are quiet and doesn't mean it's not worthwhile. And it doesn't mean that those quiet people, aren't also paying attention.
Speaker 0 00:19:19 Yeah. You've pulled me off the path to community once again, because this is also something very common in starting up a podcast, right? Like you launch a podcast too. Well, maybe just your mom is listening, right. And then there's like your mom's friend, then your mom's neighbor. And all of a sudden I've got three, four people listening to my show. This is the same kind of thing. Right. Where as the person who might be like priming the pump or putting out content into community, and you're kind of discouraged in the beginning because you're like, why isn't anybody? Just, why is anybody doing anything? I'm asking questions. I got, I'm trying to engage here. And the same thing happens for podcasters, right? They put out an episode and they say, why aren't the downloads going up? Why aren't more people sharing. It doesn't mean that they're not paying it. That they're not, not paying attention. They're not that they don't care. They're just, they're still looking for something that they're there. They see it. And they just, they need that one. I don't know, lack of a better word trigger to get them to, to, to share it, to listen. Right. And to do that kind of thing. Is that a fair statement? Have you seen that too in your podcasting endeavors?
Speaker 1 00:20:20 Absolutely. And I will say that part of growing community is good marketing skills, because without that marketing that you mentioned before, people won't know about it. You can't build community. If they don't know about it, I'm constantly telling people it's not a field of dreams. If you build it, they are not showing up. Unless you tell them to come show up about it, right? So you have to be singing your own praises. You have to be singing the praises of your guests. If you're a guest and mine is a hundred percent guests, there are other podcasts where it's the podcast or talking, sharing information. And that is the podcast. So you're not bringing other people in, in that case is a little different, a little bit of a different challenge. You're starting to market based on the content that you are providing. Not necessarily the people that you're providing information to, but in my case, every single person that comes on is anxious to share that, that episode with the people that they know. And so it starts to grow that way too. I had somebody on who he was very new to the community and he's, he says to me, my mom, can't wait to hear this.
Speaker 0 00:21:16 If
Speaker 1 00:21:16 I can make your mum's day, there's somebody in the UK is like, if I can make your mum's day, then we're all good. And his, he shared his episode so much that it was one of the most listened to episodes because he was so excited about it, that he put it out through his social network. And that's what I find works really, really well. People who are hesitant to share information, you cannot be a wallflower. You cannot hide your, put yourself under the bushel or whatever those different words are that you have to be able to put yourself out there, singing your own praises. Even if it's a fake it till you make it, you absolutely have to put it out in a confident way. I come across really confident. I deal with anxiety on the regular. And sometimes it's a matter of just kind of pushing myself a little bit harder.
Speaker 1 00:21:55 Or now I have accountability partners. That'll be like, you didn't put out an episode. You need to do that and get those things going. Because if it's just left to my own devices, sometimes things aren't going to go the way they need to go. So I have to hold myself accountable. I have to have other people holding me accountable. Sometimes it really does take a village. In some cases, I know most people think that to start a podcast and build a community, you have to have really good equipment, the equipment. And I'm sure you've said this before, too. Yeah, equipment's great. If you can sound good. That's fantastic. But the first thing is just do it and build it. Get better equipment as you go. But build that community, start talking about what your, your, your purposes and get the information out there. Okay.
Speaker 0 00:22:30 I feel like I'm sitting on the psychiatrist's couch right now and getting a nice therapy session because in my, in my, in my internal meetings with launching this, this new quote unquote community tool, this particular tool has different price points with all these different features. And you look at it and you're like, Ooh, like I would love to have that, that feature over there that has its own like whatever custom app that people can download and like, whatever, all these different features that, that, that has with it. And then I started thinking like, wait a minute. I don't, I don't even have people logged into this thing yet. I have nobody engaging in this new community yet it doesn't even exist. And there's all of these other things I have to do. Like you said, to market this stuff and get it out there before I even spend money on it.
Speaker 0 00:23:15 Like why buy this fancy thing when I don't even have 10 people in room yet having valuable conversation as very important to keep us grounded. I think just to not spend money foolishly, but also not get alert to, or attracted to other fancy bells and whistles that really don't make a community any better. At the end of the day. One of the things that we'll go back to building the community, one of the things that is important is you said accountability and keeping people on track. Like again, back to that, priming the pump, getting people to stay committed to doing this stuff. Do you have any other tips and tricks that you deploy to keep people accountable or to surface up some of those awesome community members that might want to lead the charge for the rest of the community? Um, moderators and things like,
Speaker 1 00:24:06 Yeah, if you can find cheerleaders that want to support your cause, those are the best people to pull in. So there are people who don't want to be podcasters, but love what I'm doing and want to help me move forward. And so sometimes that shows itself in the, in the form of a sponsor and people just want to throw money my way, which, okay, that's fine. It always helps. But most often, so some of my sponsors are my biggest cheerleaders and they're constantly like they're putting they're re-tweeting me more than I'm retweeting me kind of thing. And they're talking about me and my podcast and building my brand even more than I am. And so it's, it's really nice when other people sing your praises more than you having to stand on the soapbox and sing your own praises. Right? So if you can build community around you where some of those different community members might have different roles, that's even better.
Speaker 1 00:24:55 So I have somebody now that's joined me. Who's managing social media because I do so much in my day job that I, my own social media was falling behind. And so she's helping put out older episodes and renew interest in, Oh, wow. That person was on there when you first started. Well, that was a hundred episodes ago. And so having her on there and we use, we use an app and some people use a sauna or Trello we're using to do list. And that is something that we can share. We can assign tasks to one another. And if I'm behind, she'll put a little comment and I'll get a little email that says, Hey, did you do this yet? And so it's a good reminder for me to keep on those things that I need to keep on to keep things moving forward. But also she really upped my game. She does social media way more than I do. And so she hooked me into tools and things that we can do that will make it a lot easier to manage. And so if you can find those people in the community to work with you, whether you're paying them, whether they want to volunteer, whatever it is, somehow find a way to appreciate them because people like to be appreciated for their work that I think that you can actually move yourself forward even more.
Speaker 0 00:25:57 Yeah. And I think that's a strong lesson right there too, is I think a lot about becoming a steward, a good steward of a community is that, that it's not just about your ideas, your product, your cause, whatever it is, like, whatever world of a community that you're building, that you're really there to, to prop up everyone else, uh, to a degree. And just like, keep that whatever train moving is the first word that comes to my head. Like, keep that, keep that in motion. And it shouldn't be something that you fall short of because that's, I mean, obviously the people in the community are the lifeblood of the community. So if you're not trying to keep that in motion, it's going to be a difficult challenge.
Speaker 1 00:26:33 I think about too. Like I have a podcast that I interview other people and people know me because of my podcast, but every single one of those episodes isn't about me. Every single one of those episodes is about somebody else in the community. And so even though was like, Oh wow, you've got that podcast. I know your face. I know who, I know your voice and all that. Listen to all those episodes. You're going to learn a little bit about me because I'm actually having conversations with people. But it's mostly about the other people. It's 95% about the other people in the room. And so it's not about me. And that's what makes it such a beautiful thing. I don't have to talk about me. I don't actually have to have any answers. I just have to ask the questions.
Speaker 0 00:27:07 Yeah. Hey soon, you don't even need, you don't even need to show up. You can just automate everything and then just pumping out. You can just focus on building another podcast, right. And another community
Speaker 1 00:27:16 Putting it out on video too. That might be true. Last
Speaker 0 00:27:19 Sort of final question here. And we've actually, we've, we've talked about so much of this. We've hit so many points so far. I find that the success of a podcast, isn't just the act of hitting, publish and getting that podcast up there. It's everything else that you do around it. Do you remember that moment in time when you, when you learn that lesson, either the hard way or the nice way where it's like, Oh wow, yeah. Marketing. Yes. A blog. Yes. A newsletter. Yes. Community. Yes. Like, Oh, there's all this other stuff I have to do to make it to a hundred plus episodes. Do you remember that point? Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:27:54 So I, I am, I have the benefit of having an MBA in marketing. So I do bring that to the table. So a lot of that I already knew coming in, which is good, but the community that I've built up is literally just people on Twitter and people in one person that I run into. I'm not using any of those other formats right now. I don't have a newsletter and I'm not blogging. So all of those things that I have in the future, but I would love to do. But I think what's really interesting for me is that people just want to tell their story. And so giving people the opportunity in a safe space, they hear me talk to people. They know I'm not, I'm not a yellow journalist. I'm not trying to ask the gotcha questions. I'm giving people an opportunity to introduce themselves to the bigger, the greater community.
Speaker 1 00:28:33 And I think for me, that's where the real magic comes in is being able to do that, but definitely sharing and doing the marketing through social media, uh, Twitter, those kinds of things has been absolutely paramount. And not just expecting that the at WP coffee talk on Twitter is, is where it's going to be at. Cause I have a lot less followers there than I do on my personal brand. So it's constantly, re-tweeting reaching out to other people and say, Hey, could you give this a retreat for me? I'm not opposed to asking people every once in a while too, to help boost some things, but, and other people reach out to me for the same reason. And I'm always happy to help other people as well. That's something that I believe in of course, but, but yeah, so you absolutely have to have marketing in mind. You have to have a way to get the product out there. It isn't enough to fill the pool. Nobody's going to come swim in it. If they don't know that the Gates are right.
Speaker 0 00:29:24 That's awesome. Um,
Speaker 1 00:29:25 Michelle, as I go, yeah,
Speaker 0 00:29:29 That's another podcast for you just like make up these random quotes and get them out there. Michelle, for chef podcast, a barista at WP coffee, talk.com. Find everything else that you
[email protected]. Anything else you want to plug or say before we close out the show,
Speaker 1 00:29:46 Just thanks for all you're doing. I appreciate knowing. I wish that I had known before I started some of the things that you're teaching other people, because I literally did everything wrong from the start. And that's been a lesson in and of itself. And, but it is proof positive that if you're doing the right thing, even if you do it wrong, you can build it. I just think it might've been a lot easier if I had actually followed the steps with somebody like you taking some of those calls.
Speaker 0 00:30:09 Thank you. Thank you for validating my existence for the last eight years, meaningful podcasting, everybody else, castles.com. castles.com/audience listened to the audience podcast every week, every Thursday, join the email newsletter there or write to the Academy. What are you waiting for? If you're learning how to set up your podcast today, go to Academy dot Castillo's dot com. Okay. We'll see you in the next episode.
