Speaker 1 00:00:05 Hey, it's Matt today. We're excited to share an episode from a new podcast we've recently purchased. Yes. You've heard that, right. We purchased a podcast here at Casto. So podcast hosting company that produces this show, the audience podcast, this episode you'll hear today is from the host of our new podcast. Jay <inaudible> host of the three clips podcast. He and Craig, the owner of Castle's talk about the acquisition and how the deal came about and what this means for podcasters here at Casos SI with the audience podcast, I'd like to cover as much of the fundamentals to podcasting, as we possibly can then cast a wider net to capture everything that goes into making a successful show. Think of three clips as the next tier of education here, Jay goes deep on bringing down some of the most successful shows with some of the most successful hosts, how to do better storytelling the art of the interview, how to craft a better narrative.
Speaker 1 00:00:58 We made this purchase to add more value to you. Our listener and our customers here at Castillo's podcast, don't need hundreds of thousands of listeners to be successful. We're creators ourselves, sitting on the sidelines, watching giant billion-dollar companies. I E Facebook and Spotify take on trillion dollar companies, mainly Apple for the throne of podcasting. Well, here's a win for us. A win for small creators who dream of earning a living with podcasting and working with a great team behind them. This is what represents the majority of podcasters. You're listening to the audience podcast today. Introducing our latest show. Three clips found at three clips, podcast.com. Enjoy the show,
Speaker 0 00:01:38 Jay and crank.
Speaker 2 00:01:43 Hey, it's Jay. The thing about creativity and creating things for a living is that you never quite feel you've arrived. You start out by gazing up at well, everyone, and you think wouldn't it be great to just make some stuff and then you make some stuff and you go, huh? Well, that felt nice and all, but wouldn't it be great if I could make some stuff that was good. So you put in more reps, you practice, you ship, you don't ship. You think it through you overthink it through, you do some research, then some more than a bit more. Hold on. Just a bit more. You pick their brain and there's and there's, and maybe by the book, take the course, read the blog posts. Then you listen to the podcast and head over to YouTube where you hold on, hold on. You haven't shipped anything in like forever.
Speaker 2 00:02:26 It's starting to feel suffocating. Okay? So here it goes, you hit publish and it feels better, but still not great. So you do it all over again. And then you do that for awhile. And shipping is no longer the barrier you're putting out work. Now you think about the audience, wouldn't it be great to actually get some results and have some people who love this stuff. And a few people come your way, but still you haven't arrived. Now you're thinking about more audience, more results, more projects, more original projects, more ambitious. Wouldn't that be great to do too? You're always becoming never arriving, but the narrative that we're sold is that greatness is a destination. We can eventually reach that people decide I'm going to do a thing. Then they encounter an obstacle one that has to be big and bad enough to make the story compelling, but then they get over it.
Speaker 2 00:03:17 And now everything is great. So let's hear from them about how everything is great and how we could be great too. Wouldn't that be great. Great. But wouldn't it actually be great to simply do the thing you want to do creatively and be satisfied to find a way to scratch your creative itch, to ship something you're proud of consistently to make something that makes a difference and simply get to do that for your work. But many of us get caught up in that race thinking we'll be satisfied reaching that thing over there. Wait. Nope. Now it's that thing. Wouldn't that be great to reach that thing? Our culture is a culture of more. If you're not growing fast, if you don't have a massive audience, if you aren't famous, if you're not the number one in the category, well, then it's not worth doing, is it?
Speaker 2 00:04:07 It's not a compelling story. Why even bother thing is enough is a decision we make not a destination we reach. So I got to thinking, what would enough look like for me to run this show consistently and better over time for you? What would be enough to experiment just a bit more to play a bit more and to finally make money doing this show directly? Because yes, I have a course about podcasting that you can take. It's called growable shows and I hope you take it. Yes. I have a couple of books that you can buy. I hope you buy them. I also helped develop produce. And even in a few cases, host podcasts for B2B brands and authors who care about a better way of work for more people in this world. And all of it does support this show, but this show has always run at a loss for my business.
Speaker 2 00:05:04 I spend more on the show out of my own pocket than the show makes directly. So what would be enough enough to make this show better consistently to have even more fun to serve you the podcast or in deeper and better ways to become a sorta show of record for people who want to make more ambitious projects, but don't have gobs and gobs of cash to just throw at it or tons and tons of people like those credits that you hear people read from some of the more famous shows at the very end of the episode. So the decision I made at the beginning of 2021 was to find a way towards enough. Wouldn't that be great? So today I have an announcement. Three clips has been acquired. I always looked at others who sold shows like they were space aliens, like sell a show who does that five people do, five people do that.
Speaker 2 00:05:58 How do they do that? And how lucky they must be to work on a show and earn money doing so they get paid to make the show rather than make the show to promote the things that pay them. Now in my career, I've been very lucky. I've worked in business and in marketing for teams at Google HubSpot, a tiny startup, a VC firm, I've traveled the world, giving keynote speeches, professionally presenting to thousands of people at a time sometimes. And I create thing after thing online, without hesitation, I consider myself a very fortunate and also very confident person, but you know what? I was always afraid to try holding up a creative project I made and telling another organ <inaudible> this is worth it. You should buy it. Yeah. And no, by the way, I should keep making it for you because I love doing this and please pay me to make it.
Speaker 2 00:06:50 And then one day at the beginning of this year, I just had enough of that fear. I was talking to a tech company. Their name is, is cast dos. Casto sells tools for podcasters, but more importantly, they believe strongly in the creative process. Driving most shows their team much like ours believes that more people can create more aspirational shows, not by throwing money at it, not by having the massive teams and decades of experience, bottled it up in some of the more famous organizations that you and I know exists, making famous shows, but instead by being craft driven, by being scrappy and by caring more deeply about the audience than the other guy, Casos believes what I believe. And so a kind of culminating moment from the moment I started this show back in November, 2019, all the way through till today, when I'm recording this in late April, 2021 Casos has acquired three clips.
Speaker 2 00:07:48 I said to them after long last, Hey, I feel good about what you think and what you believe and what you're building for podcasters. Yeah. With them. Why don't you buy this show? And they said, yes, I'm sorry. What three clips has a small audience, 400 downloads for a new episode within one week would be a lot right now, not 4,000 downloads, 400 downloads. Three clips has a small team. It's me working very part-time on this show. And our two producers also part-time both freelancers, Sherri Turner, and Andrea <inaudible> three clips also has none of the things you're supposed to have in this culture of more faster. And now we aren't trying to sell, like, get their quick scheme about how to make a podcast and make it better, faster. So you can grow a huge audience and monetize it. We aren't promoting any of the click baity headlines that you see spinning around the web that people love to click on because they think it'll make them rich or successful or famous.
Speaker 2 00:08:46 No, we dive into the minutia of the creative process, the slow burn, the philosophical, the daily grind, all of it, none of the stuff that seems to the story. We love to tell of massive success or the types of content that teaches that professes to get you there faster. And Castillo's wanting to buy that show. What the thing is, three clips may have none of that usual stuff, but you know what it does have you a small but passionate audience, serious podcasters who give a damn who give lots of dams about making great shows about taking back this idea of creativity from everybody's interpretation of it out there publicly on social media and in the media creativity as stunt like creativity as going big or going home, we're taking it back and reclaiming creativity for what it actually is. Especially as it applies to our work.
Speaker 2 00:09:39 It's the tiny techniques, the micro moments and the refreshing wrinkles, all driven by that fire that we have to make something that goes deeper in a world, trending shallow. And Casos said yes to that. Here's the deal. We all think we need a huge audience. I thought I needed a huge audience to sell a show, but we don't. We need the right audience. We need a small number of people reacting in big ways. Resonance, before we get to reach the reach comes more easily as a result. Unless you worry about this show, don't in a moment, you're going to hear an interview of mine with the CEO of Casto is Craig Hewitt. But for now know this, this show is only getting better from here. Casto is a forward-thinking company. And like any show to join a network of shows we're receiving resources, support and access, not bosses, by the way, it's worth saying, I am still very much an independent creator, not an employee of <inaudible> and I still very much want to help others build great shows of their own as a consultant advisor show developer and show host.
Speaker 2 00:10:50 Oh, and I hope I don't feel like a space alien to you now. So just allow me to shine a light into the black box that is selling a show. And I don't mean one of those like alien retractor beams, I mean a bright warm light. So here we go. First, how did this deal come together? Well, for starters, I think it has to do with me being a participant in the community. I want to serve. I interact with and teach and learn from and evangelize others who believe what I do about this creative work that we do. And as a result, I've known Casto CEO, Craig Hewitt, and their director of podcast or success. Matt Madeiros for a little while. Now, Matt even took my podcasting workshop last fall, see trust is developed over time. And without that trust, without you participating in the community, how can you hope to serve them?
Speaker 2 00:11:39 Ultimately, I don't know much about selling shows, but I do understand a lot about marketing. And what I know is that modern marketing is all about participation, not promotion. It's about proving. You can do the work shipping things into the world to help others adding value before you expect any in return. Castillo's did ask for the numbers and I shared them freely, but more so I told them about who's listening. I shared statements from people, tweets and emails, proof that people were irrationally passionate about. This show. One of the best things I did was move some of my audience off of third parties. I don't control like Apple and Spotify onto a newsletter that I write every Friday called playing favorites. By subscribing to that newsletter you or others like you have made this sale possible. Because the best thing I chose to do was survey that audience and ask people whether or not they listen to this show.
Speaker 2 00:12:36 And 66% of that list said, yes. And while I don't know who you, the podcast listener are, I absolutely know who my email subscribers are. They're independent content creators, they're freelancers, small business owners, startup founders, and marketers. Others come from the BB. You see the New York times, MailChimp, Shopify, Roku, Amazon prime video and red bull. What binds my subscribers together is their love of the creative craft and their belief that our jobs as creators, especially in business, is to serve the audience better, to make things that make a difference out that email list. I don't know enough about my audience and I can't tell the story of this show to cast dos or anyone else. So I don't know if anyone else sees as clearly just how worthwhile making this show is. I talk about this all the time as somebody who has seen time and time again, how third parties burn creators, because they don't care about your business.
Speaker 2 00:13:36 They care about theirs. And Oh, by the way, with Apple announcing subscriptions, they're about to do this too. When a third party looks out for a number one, the creator gets screwed. This happens with Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, you name it by existence on platforms that we don't own and trying to build our businesses and our audience chances there, it ends up poorly for us. So we have to build not on rented land, but on land. We actually control and own our websites, our email lists. And Oh, by the way, what I love about Casos in part is that as one of their core beliefs, they're building tools to help. Great. That's how the deal came together. Second, let's talk about money. Shall we? How is this deal structured? Well for a flat fee equivalent, basically to one of my keynote speeches, I sold the rights of this show to cast dose.
Speaker 2 00:14:28 And then for a monthly retainer, I get to stay on board as a host and finally earn some income directly from this show. Now, legally, I'm contracted to do this show for 12 more months and emotionally, I think everybody involved wants that to go further. Lastly, in addition to the flat fee and my monthly retainer Castillo's will be covering the production costs of three clips, which is such a huge relief. I'm a content entrepreneur, a solo creator to not have to pay other creators, but still lead a project that gets other creators paid. That makes me feel amazing. And the expense off of my books is a huge relief. So we've talked about the move that I made. We've talked about the money. Let's talk about, uh, another M the mood, cause it's a whole mood. My friend, my mood, this whole mood, is that a vindication.
Speaker 2 00:15:20 I feel vindicated. I spend most of my time running around the business world, pushing for more and better creativity, trying to help demystify the creative process and ultimately serve one personal professional mission to help people make what matters most to their careers, to their companies and to their communities. And a part of that message is to push people towards resonance and thinking about serving the audience more deeply, not just frantically sprinting after reach, to find a small but passionate audience and ensure that we serve them better and the results come more easily after that. So as I say, at the end of every episode of three clips, this work we do is not about who arrives it's about who stays. If you're in marketing, you think about grabbing attention all the time. Well, my push to the business world is don't just grab attention, hold it.
Speaker 2 00:16:10 Because the only thing you can do to hold people's attention for minutes or hours at a time is to create a better experience. That's what a show is all about. That's what great marketing is. That's what great storytelling does. And to have a brand say, yeah, we believe that too. We like that you do that, Jay. Here's a check, keep doing what you're doing. And we'll support you to have someone say that incredibly vindicating. So I see this as a win for folks that believe in the creative craft that believe in a small but passionate audience that believe in going deeper in a world trending shallow. So to that end, you did this by supporting tweeting, emailing and telling me that you love this show by coming on the show, which several listeners have as guests, all of which by the way, helps us book other great guests from Ted discovery, Shopify, PRX, KCRW and the cut Vox media, and more by you participating in this community and being a lover of this show, it led us here.
Speaker 2 00:17:15 I couldn't be happier to sell three clips and keep making more and better episodes trying new things, because finally we have the clarity, the stress relief and the income to support that I couldn't have sold this show without you. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. The thing about creativity and creating things for a living is that you never quite feel you've arrived. You always think I'm here now, but wouldn't it be great to be there? Wouldn't it be great if we did that? Wouldn't it be great if we grew to this, but all we can really do is decide what enough looks like and build our businesses and careers accordingly. Thanks to your listenership and the hard work of producers, Sherry and Andrea. I have enough to make and host this show consistently and make it better because my job like yours is to make what matters most to make a show that someone proudly declares is their favorite. And wouldn't that be great. What other questions do you have for me about this experience? I'm an open book. Please ask, tweet me at <inaudible> or email
[email protected]. I desperately want to be as transparent as possible about this. So others feel empowered to pursue this path. So you pursue this path
Speaker 3 00:18:40 If you so choose.
Speaker 2 00:18:43 And now here's my interview with Casto founder and CEO, Craig Hewitt about this acquisition and where we go now.
Speaker 3 00:18:53 So what does Castro's do
Speaker 4 00:18:57 Us as a podcast hosting and analytics platform? We have an in-house production team as well. We help create unique content for about a hundred brands
Speaker 2 00:19:07 And, uh, any, uh, any shows that people may know that use Casos or if you, we can always skip that if the answer's no. Um, and the second question you can answer in its place would be the types of show that thrive as customers.
Speaker 4 00:19:20 Yeah. I think one of the, one of the most pleasant surprises as we really got into, to Casto scaling, you know, past the first year or so is, is the breadth and variety of shows that we host. I mean, we have several shows that have millions of downloads a month, which is really cool to see. We have everything from churches to sports group to animate, to marketers and big brands using podcasting as a content marketing tool. Um, so I mean, it is, it is amazing to see the variety of shows that people have. I think that's one of the great things about podcasting.
Speaker 2 00:19:53 Is there a through line that ties all the customers together, a belief system? You know, one of the things you mentioned to me early on is you're not really interested in or focused on the kind of Hollywood effication of podcasts.
Speaker 4 00:20:05 I think one of the things that folks really like and come to us for that we hear a lot is kind of owning your turf and owning your content. Um, I think a lot of that comes from like our roots with our WordPress integration is a lot of our shows and customers want to have like a website for their podcast and that needs to be the place where they drive people back to. So a lot of things that we hear our customers saying is, you know, Hey, how do I link this back to my site? What do I do with, you know, visitors once they get there onto an email list and all this kind of marketing and branding work that's one of the most common threads is most people use podcasting as a form of content marketing for their brand. And that can be a lot of different things, but they, they use it as a form of content marketing to get people back to their site to do kind of whatever the next kind of call to action is there.
Speaker 5 00:20:55 So I was talking to Matt, who's the director of podcast or success at cast dos. And we were talking about sponsorship and then the idea of the acquisition came up and in not a lot of time, Matt came back and he was like, yeah, we want to do that. And I was like, Oh, okay, great, great. Um, so was that something you had been considering? What, what what's walk me through where your head is at with being a software company and acquiring a podcast?
Speaker 4 00:21:24 Yeah. I mean, I think that the, the, the whole idea, whether it's, we want to sponsor three clips or kind of, we get to the point where we are now, where we, we can acquire it is we are a media brand. We use the term, like it's our digital CV, right? It's a online presence that is a representation of our brand, whether we're sponsoring a show like that, or, you know, really deeply partnering with it, like we are now, or are kind of just like varying degrees on that spectrum. I think, you know, I think a little bit of this is aspirational, right. Is like three clips and, and your work really represents kind of the best of what we want to do and be as a brand. And, and so the ability to just do that faster and more came up and we jumped on it. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 5 00:22:06 I knew I'd made a good decision when we were talking about the design of the website and I was like, should we have like the Castro's header bar across the top with like a logo or something like that? And you were like, no, we should keep it as, this is the three clips brand. And we have a light presence somewhere later on
Speaker 4 00:22:22 Page. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, I think when we were first talking, one of the most important things for us is, is just to not do anything with this show, right? Is, is you and your involvement and the brand, and kind of the persona of the show need to continue exactly as they are. And that is the most important thing for us. And so everything we can do to support from there is what we want to do. We're going to do absolutely nothing to detract or take away from that, or change the trajectory of the show or anything like that. That that's why it's so successful. And now we want to do everything we can to keep that going and hopefully give kind of you and the team more resources and opportunities to improve from there.
Speaker 6 00:23:07 Podcast
Speaker 5 00:23:07 Technology in very many ways is becoming saturated. And a lot of companies are playing in the exact same space. How do you see Casos has placed in this industry? So
Speaker 4 00:23:18 We've always been a little different. We're a relatively new company. We're just about four years since the initial product launch. We've always been a little bit different because our first angle into the market was with our WordPress integration. So we own and manage a plugin called seriously simple podcasting for a long time. That was the only way you could use the platform was directly with WordPress, kind of opened it up now and, and have a large user base that uses WordPress large user base that doesn't use WordPress. And at this, the way that we're different in the way that we try to stand out in the market is around private podcasting. And so I know that, you know, you have a course and a community, and so you can appreciate this concept of like kind of owning the turf that your brand is built on and having ability to one kind of charge directly for free kind of products and services to that, not live on another platform where they could shut you down tomorrow, you know, and, and three offer value to people in that community in several different ways.
Speaker 4 00:24:12 And so the advent of private podcasting really came like last year with COVID it accelerated a lot, and we are very much all in on that as the angle that Matt and I really think will drive podcasting forward in the future is not just a show like this in its current state, at least where, you know, it's a marketing tool, it's a brand thing for you to get the word out, to bring people back into the rest of the kind of stuff in your world, but, but maybe like a place where you can directly make money for charging for your content. It could be as it is now with us. And this'll change, you know, with the next whole month, but a tool that kind of bolts onto your, your circle community or your membership platform through something like member space that we directly integrate with just a way to give creators a way to say, Hey, I own the place that I engage with my best audience directly. I can charge money for it. I can have unique things there. And podcasting is one of those unique things that I only offer to two members of my kind of exclusive community.
Speaker 5 00:25:11 Yeah. I mean, it's no secret. I just don't think we wrap our minds around it. Information, knowledge, even expertise in many ways has become commodified. I have choice in every niche I can learn from the best of the best. Why am I going to you? And even more? So if you're a creator, why am I paying you? And I think the things we should pay for are not knowledge, not how to, especially, but things like community and connection, exclusive access and prestige. These are the things that I think people want to get either behind a subscription wall, whether that's subscription is for your paid or they want to pay, you know, that one time feed, access, whatever it is, the experience you're offering live, for example. And I don't think we think about that quite enough is yes, podcasting has these really cliche phrases around depth and connection and engagement and intimacy, ding, ding, ding, there's the world.
Speaker 5 00:26:04 But we don't do enough with that where it's like, Oh, what happens next in your relationship? And coming out of content marketing as I did, you don't sell ad space. So you're always asking what's next. They listened to the show, great, what's next? They joined the subscription list or on the email newsletter, great. What's next. And eventually, you know, they're buying a product that you're selling them or a service that you're selling them even more so they're evangelizing your cause and becoming super fans. So I think that's all companies, not just media and ad driven, but it's nothing good happens when you sell a product, unless you get people to say, or unless you say what's next in the relationship. So where can we go deeper with our audiences? Because what podcasts are are good for? And I do think private podcasts are exclusive bonus episodes. Things like that is a very natural way. It's smooth the edges between you listening to the public show. And then they ask for, from me or someone else to go deeper, like we were already listening, listen to the exclusive or listened to the deeper, more personal version or behind the scenes, et cetera, et cetera. So it makes sense.
Speaker 4 00:27:06 Yeah. Yeah. I think that the one place, a lot of content creators get stuck and maybe it's kind of like a self limiting belief is, you know, I'm going to create this content and then I have to go do this whole other thing. Right. I have to go create a course or I have to go build a community to, to monetize my content in my brand. And that's, that's like a big lift, right? Like this whole other thing on top of your blog or your podcast or whatever that you can charge money for is, is hard. And, and is the thing that limits a lot of people from doing that and being professional content creators. Right. But, but we think what we dub premium podcasting, which is like directly charging money for access to your podcast, takes a lot of that away just to say, Hey, one episode a month is going to be behind this paywall. The rest of it's going to be free. I'll create all the content, just like I normally do. You don't have to have a whole nother website not to have this other thing. You just need to flip the switch inside. Castro's to say, I want to charge $10 a month for people to get this one episode. Right?
Speaker 5 00:28:04 My whole thing is to help people make what matters. That's all over my website. You can see echoes of that and hear echoes of that around three clips, branding and copy. And what I say on the show and part of helping people make what matters is to help them understand the business side of this stuff, because you're trying in many cases to fund your life, your career, your project. And so that hits me where I live Craig, because yeah, right now I have a membership group called make what matters that, that fits now. And it's starting to feel like it's pulling me away from making shows, even though the intent was to link it heavily to my other podcast on thinkable. Um, and so I'm trying to figure out how to get back to linking them together a little bit more fully, but with three clips, it's literally like I get to earn money to do this show. I mean, that's the dream, right? That's the dream.
Speaker 5 00:28:59 What, this is not me fishing for compliments. Um, we're on video and I'm winking right now. Um, earnest question though, for real, my show, our show is not huge. It's not 10,000 downloads an episode. What was appealing about it? I mean, there's this myth that you have to be completely viral. You have to have hundreds of thousands of followers, subscribers downloads like the top line numbers that we see from people we admire who are earning a living directly on their creativity. Those numbers are nuts. They feel out of reach for most of us mere mortals. And I would even argue some days as well. It's, they're insane. They're the, the, the stuff of myth and it's the optics. I think that gets in the way of many of us pursuing this. So I claim this as a victory for us, but also for lots and lots of creators who do want to learn, earn a living on their craft, have modest audiences, not massive. So because it's not a massive audience. Why, why was it interesting to purchase the show?
Speaker 4 00:30:01 W we always try to kind of like abstract away the lessons when we're talking about things like this. And so I'll do that here to say that it's the quality of the audience, not the quantity that, that I think listeners to the show can take away and say, if I have a hundred or 500 really high quality well-aligned listeners with my brand, or in this case, you know, Castillo's brand that is worth a lot to our company. It should be worth a lot to you as well. Like as, as a marketing tool for, for your brand, um, you don't need thousands or tens of thousands of downloads, an episode to have a really impactful podcast. You do. If you're going to go sell, you know, $25 CPM ads to, you know, mattresses.com or whatever. But if you're using this as a tool to kind of further your brand, or you're going to sell directly, you know, uh, access to your show, you, you just don't need that.
Speaker 4 00:30:55 You need a couple hundred people that are listening that are really digging what you're saying and are going to engage with your brand for it to be a really meaningful thing. Because I mean, if you look at a blog or an email or something like that, like the ability to get people, to listen to what you have to say for 45 minutes every week does not exist anywhere else in the world, other than podcasting. And so, you know, three clips coming in with hundreds of people that do that every week, listening to what you have to say about podcasting is, is exactly what we want to do. Right. We want to say, Hey, what is the, what is the highest quality, uh, kind of Avenue out there for someone talking about the creative process of podcasts?
Speaker 5 00:31:35 Well, what's interesting to you about the creative process of podcasting because you aren't a production tool, right? I mean like the, the skeptic who has not spent a lot of time in marketing, or maybe has, and that's why they're skeptical, they might say, Oh, well, this seems like the only solution would be for Casos to now bludgeon the three clips audience with Castillo's messaging, because it's not a nice, neat fit to go from talking about the creative process to naturally now checking out Castillo's. Yeah. Cause you're not a production tool. So why is that particular thing as you Craig, but also as the CEO of the company? Interesting.
Speaker 4 00:32:15 I think if you look at the landscape of podcasting, one of the things that you saw with COVID is just this explosion of the number of shows, right? And so I think what that did is it saturated, you're talking about the podcast hosting market, but the podcasting market at this point, that there is a show about everything out there and the worst possible thing that a brand can do we think is come in and make a crappy podcast and launch it in 2001, because nothing will happen. No one will care. You know, your marketing director will say, Hey, show me the value. You know, show me the ROI of this. And you're going to say, Oh, sorry, there isn't one, because nobody listened because they're, they're not going to listen to a new show that that stinks. And so for us, the ability to say, this is what a really good show looks like.
Speaker 4 00:32:58 This is how to think about how to create a really good show is, is a really good reference for our brand to be able to say, this is the kind of work we do. This is the kind of work you should think about doing. And if you come here, we have not just the software tools, but the resources and education and inspiration, maybe even for you to do that, whether you're a little kind of one person personal brand or a big company. Yeah. I mean, that, that was, that was one of the biggest reasons is, you know, the ability to say, look, you know, we do this, we do this. We don't just say, create a great podcast, but we, you know, we definitely do it.
Speaker 5 00:33:38 It's funny because most of the listeners are not marketers, but a healthy portion are because of my personal platform and where I came out of. But, um, regardless whether you're a marketer, you're in the media, et cetera. I know that when you feel that creative fire and you want to make good work, few things are probably more frustrating than when people gloss over the production process and get to the promotion, growth, distribution, analytics, monetization stuff, as like that's the real work, hold on a second. It's a lot easier to get a rocket into orbit. If the rocket is exceptionally well-made like, and I think so few people experienced that, especially those who may be quote unquote, don't get it in terms of the creative process where they're like, just do the bare bones basics. It's easy, buy a microphone, chat with your boss, you know, call up a buddy. Who's an expert interview them. That's easy. And then they're like, you know, I'm satisfied with how our show sounds, but I'm really frustrated with the growth. That's like, you don't have a growth problem. You have a product problem. You have an experience problem. You have a, didn't listen to your audience. Didn't survey the landscape yet another interview series with authors, experts, executives, and athletes problem. Let's start
Speaker 4 00:34:48 There. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that as the, as the market for podcasts continues to get more and more saturated, that is the only thing that will separate good shows from, from everyone. Else's there's the content. I mean, I think it's podcasts are highly sharable, right? You hear about a new podcast from a friend or on Twitter or something like that. And we've just seen it over and over that the really successful shows first and foremost are really good shows. It's not some magic trick to hack iTunes or whatever, email marketing one Oh one stuff it's creating really good stuff that people want to share. And because then they're like, they're proud to be the one to have found this new, great show that they get to tell their friends about. Where,
Speaker 5 00:35:32 Where do you hope that this show goes?
Speaker 4 00:35:35 Yeah, I, I hope, and it's already very far on the path to being kind of the reference that people use to say, Hey, if you want to create a really great podcast, this is the show that talks about how to do it every week. This is, this is where they break down. They're really great pieces of a great show and what constitutes those pieces and how to recreate them for yourself.
Speaker 5 00:35:59 That, I mean, that means a lot for you to say to me, because you know, part of me has well, um, parts of Cillian. And when you're born Sicilian two things happen, your blood boils really fast. And also you're born with this little, little chip in your shoulder and it's there for the rest of your life, no matter how you be the president of the galaxy. And you'd still feel that chip. So for me, part of it is, you know, Casos has a larger audience than the show has in terms of if you combine email and customers and social reach Costos has resources by virtue selling software, uh, and having a team Castillo's has the trust of some people, even if it's a small number of people who may not know our show exists, and that trust is, is a lot more powerful than just a ton of people that casually are aware of you, like Casto seems to go deep with the right communities.
Speaker 5 00:36:49 And, you know, part of me does feel frustrated where alone as an independent, I felt the pride of being an Indi, but joining forces with Costos. It's like, that's exactly what I want. Like, if you want to learn how to create an incredible podcast, there's only a few resources out there for you. And most of them are very much from the public radio camp and kind of stay there. And there's just so much creative richness in podcasting that deserve to be celebrated and elevated and dissected and understood, um, not necessarily to hold it out of reach, hold it up on a pedestal is one thing like I'd like to celebrate it, but also then I'd like to bring it back down and kind of have everybody who aspires to make a show like that. See the micro, see the minutia, the parts and pieces that go into it that they say, Oh, you know what?
Speaker 5 00:37:37 Like it might take me a while. Maybe they're on step 1000 over on that show, I'm on step five, but I can get to step six, seven, eight, nine, 10, maybe skip a couple of steps because I now understand that this is not a nice to have out of reach. Maybe someday thing I can create, not a bunch of episodes, not a podcast. I can create a show that matters to the right people right now. Everybody's out there trying to be, they wish they were Ironman. They wish they had like all that money and the crazy technology. And, you know, it'd be great if I had billions of dollars and a genius that I could turn to as a technologist and like, you know, all that stuff. And then I'm going to step into that Ironman suit and I'm going to be a kick ass superhero of a podcast, or, um, well, Spider-Man just a teenage kid.
Speaker 5 00:38:28 Tinkering in his bedroom can hang with Ironman in fact is more powerful than Ironman. Right. And it's okay. So what type of magic magical is the wrong word? What type of a scientifically engineered spider bit? You, when you were a kid, what are your quirks? What are your super powers that you already have? Let's bring those out of you. And then also when it's time to build, like your suit and your webbing, how do you do DIY style or at least with a little bit of resources? Cause you're not in a laboratory in the sky you're in your apartment in Queens or because it's podcasting more likely Brooklyn, right? And so it's like, I'd like to create, I've used the Ironman analogy before. Cause an Ironman suit is kind of like a podcast. You step into it and you're a superhero, but maybe we're all trying to be spider people, right?
Speaker 5 00:39:14 Like there's some innate stuff. Let's find out ways how to tease that out of you. That's the teaching philosophy constructivism. You already have what you need, but maybe with some coaching, some directions, some reminders, some exercises we can tease that out of you and you can maximize it. And in addition, when you're trying to build something proactively, how do I ensure that you're able to hang or even beat the iron men of the world with all those crazy resources and all that insane reach and the 17 people quoted in the closing credits, but you're still able to do it yourself. Like I love the idea of being an arms dealer, so to speak for sort of the creative scrappers of the world. I love that.
Speaker 4 00:39:55 And this is, I mean, it's such a massive need, right? We have a weekly kind of open office hours call. We have a hour long call, every Thursday, anyone can join Matt and I and someone from our support team answering all sorts of, you know, like success kind of questions. How do you make a better podcast technical, like how to get started questions. But I mean, there is a wealth of knowledge out there about podcasting already, but there is an immense gap of knowledge too, about, about the whole process. I mean, everywhere, what the heck is an RSS feed to, to, to, to the really kind of upper echelon of content creation. And I think that, like we say, we can't talk about it enough. We can't get in front of people early enough, um, to help them be successful because I think a lot of people start and just say, you know, I tried and it was hard. And so I quit or, you know, my marketing director asked for the report on the analytics and we gave it to them and they laughed at me. And so we quit out for eight episodes and like, it's just, we don't want any of that to happen. That that's like the overarching thing. And like, that's why we're just so excited about the opportunity to work together.
Speaker 5 00:41:00 Yeah. There there's, there's a long way to go. I think that's, to me, I heard a quote once, uh, someone tweeted it recently, it was a parody. I'll give you the serious version. And then I'll tack on the last line to make it the parody, the serious version that actually applies here, Craig is, if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go with others. So to me, that's what I'm trying to do, you know, two years ago, or I guess it's about 18 months ago. At this point when I started the show, it was me and just me. And then I started to work with other freelancers time. First. It was the managing editor that I work with on unthinkable who helps do some editing and researching and writing. I brought her over and she did a couple episodes with three clips and people loved it and I loved it and the show is better.
Speaker 5 00:41:45 Oh, wow. That's magical to work with other human beings on creative projects. Really. Uh, then I actually brought in a couple of actual producers who still work on the show today and she returned her and Andrea Mariska and, and the show grew by leaps and bounds. And, um, both in terms of quantitative and qualitative data, everything seemed to improve and I felt better and I can focus on certain things. And so partnering with <inaudible> to me is that next logical conclusion, which is you we're going together, but there's a long way to go. That was inspiring. I'll ruin it by adding on that last line, the parody, if you want. And this is my life right now. If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go with others. If you want to go neither fast nor far go with children,
Speaker 4 00:42:29 Right?
Speaker 5 00:42:31 No, I can literally hear my toddlers screaming downstairs. Oh, gracious, gracious, Craig. I think, um, I'm excited. I think this is the start of something special. I hope that this episode helped shed some light on the process for folks. If people have any interest in checking out other things that Castro's is up to, it's just casto.com any other specific places you'd want to send them?
Speaker 4 00:42:55 No, I mean, I think that's the place to go. And I think that for folks who this maybe is the first time they've heard of private podcasting, just in the top kind of navigation section, we have an area of all about what private podcasting is. I think for a lot of folks, listen to this show. Just the concept of it might be really interesting, but always happy to chat. You know, folks want to shoot me a message. I'm just Craig at Castillo's dot com. Shoot me an email. And Jay, likewise, I think this is the beginning of something really cool. And I'm excited to be kind of on the train together with this. It's really super exciting. Awesome. Thanks Greg. Awesome.
