Social Audio: Clubhouse vs Twitter Spaces

Social Audio: Clubhouse vs Twitter Spaces
Social Audio: Clubhouse vs Twitter Spaces

Feb 25 2021 | 00:32:05

Episode February 25, 2021 00:32:05

Hosted By

Stuart Barefoot

Show Notes

In this episode, Matt and Craig talk about using audio on different platforms. With the introduction of Clubhouse (an invite-only platform where users are able to have casual, drop-in audio only conversations with one another), social audio is on the rise. But what is social audio? Will it replace podcasting? Will your podcast have to compete with it? Today, Matt and Craig talk about the pros and cons of social audio, the different platforms, how you can use it to supplement your podcast, and why “owning your audio” is so important.

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Today you’ll learn about:

  •  What is social audio? 
    • Will it replace podcasting or is it competition to podcasting?
    • What is Clubhouse?
    • What is Twitter Spaces?
  • Moments in time versus episodes you can download and listen to when you have time
  • Advantages of social audio
  • How to use social audio as a supplement to your podcast
  • Standing out in Clubhouse
  • Using Clubhouse to build your personal brand
  • Facebook Groups versus Twitter Spaces
  • Possible monetization using social audio
  • The importance of owning your audio



Twitter Spaces (About)

YouTube video, “Clubhouse vs Twitter Spaces Alternatives

Castos Academy: 

Castos, private podcast: 

Castos, website:

Castos, YouTube:  

Clubhouse video: 

View Full Transcript

Episode Transcript

Speaker 0 00:00:00 Hmm, Speaker 1 00:00:05 Welcome back to the audience podcast. You're listening to the audience podcast, your home stories and lessons for podcasters, looking to take their show to the next level for people just getting started with podcasting to brands and celebrities monetizing their audio experience. The audience podcast has it all. Never missed another show by subscribing at that's <inaudible> dot com slash subscribe. I'm joined by Craig, the owner, founder, president CEO of audience. Greg has been so long. You don't even know that intro exists. Speaker 0 00:00:34 That's a brand new one to me. I love it. I love, uh, I love the, the call to action up front. I think that's something a lot of podcasts miss, but I always say like, tell them what you're going to tell them and then tell them and tell them what you told them. So I think we're, we're covered so far. Speaker 1 00:00:47 So it's been a while I've been talking to, to cast those customers, to audience listeners, to Castle's production customers who listen to the show and largely getting some great feedback about the duo host that we have going on here, hosting that we have going on here. You me doing shows together doing shows separately, and I've got a lot of positive feedback. Hopefully you're getting the same on your side. Speaker 0 00:01:10 So we, we definitely are hearing a lot of people saying, Hey, I heard about you from your podcast, which for a podcasting company is what you want to hear. But as anybody who has started a show knows, uh, there is, you know, the, the desert you have to go through before, before you get there. And I think, you know, when you're in the podcast just turned one year old a few weeks ago, six weeks ago. And for me, I think that's really where you start getting that traction as people start taking you seriously when you get to 50, 60 episodes. So, uh, yeah, I think we're at a nice inflection point here, Speaker 1 00:01:38 80 plus episodes of the audience podcast. Today's topic as those of you who already read the title it's social audio. Uh, well, I don't know if the title ends up being, but this is the title in my head anyway, social audio versus podcasting or podcasting versus social audio and this explosion of social audio lately, most notably with the, the headline making app clubhouse, which has only on iOS, which is only an exclusively by invite only at this point. And mostly only in the United States and mostly okay. Mostly only in the United States and Twitter spaces, sort of nipping at the heels, um, being developed. I don't know if you see it in your Twitter app, Craig, but it pops up every now and again, as they test out the feature. And I see it up in the, and I, you know, I click on it and I listened to it. So we're going to share some of our thoughts today on this social audio phenomenon versus the podcast and, and all of those fun things. Speaker 0 00:02:33 And I think it's important to, to even take a step back to say kind of like, cause we talk, uh, we kind of like, you know, peek behind the curtain in this show a lot, especially Matt, when you, and I talk as to why we do things, why we want to talk about certain topics. And I think for me, why I suggested we talk about this topic was, you know, it's like, if you hear something once maybe, you know, kind of dismiss it, you hear it twice, three times, four times, yeah. Maybe this is something I need to look at. Then you start hearing something a lot and you to say, okay, this is right now, at least. And I think that's how I feel about clubhouse. This is something we need to, to kind of take seriously. You need to investigate and figure out kind of from our perspective so that we can help everybody listening. Kind of understand how you might think about social audio as it kind of plays with and supplements your podcast. A lot of people ask questions like, is this competitive to podcasting? Is this going to replace my podcast answer or no, but I think that when we hear something so much, that is so closely aligned with what we do, we wanted to get on it and kind of talk through kind of how we see this, how we see it can be complimentary and helpful to other things we're doing with content and podcasting specifically, Speaker 1 00:03:38 If you follow our YouTube channel, is a couple of weeks ago. We'll probably a month ago. By the time this episode goes out, I did sort of a, a quick take on a hot take on clubhouse versus podcasting. So you can get a unique angle. If you subscribe to the channel, you can check out that video. We'll link it up in the show notes. I guess we should define what clubhouse is or what their light mission is. They have literally two paragraphs of text on their website as large of a presence that they're making today. And the website title says clubhouse drop in audio chat. A lot of people have been calling it social audio because it's a creating a social network of people and you join these rooms or stages or live chats in clubhouse. Uh, and you know, it's that similar, similar social audio, uh, social media feel. It's an avatar, it's a profile you're largely listening to these people talking, um, for all intents and purposes to me anyway, it's live stream audio. It's the Instagram story, but instead of video, it's simply audio. That's the way I, I disseminate it. Speaker 0 00:04:45 I think Instagram stories is the closest analogy that there is, you know, a lot of people try to draw the analogy to, it's kind of like what's, you know, people just coming into podcasting say, how's it like blogging and how's it like YouTube because our brains all grasper the thing we know, right? So, so like, how is this new thing I'm trying to figure out podcasting, like another thing I might know, like YouTube or podcasting. I think that an app like clubhouse actually has a really highly correlated partner over an Instagram stories. The only difference being audio versus video, it's based on a platform that you don't own. I think that's something that we'll talk about. It is in the end, I think a social media channel, a place to create content, but that by design has this kind of network effect built in, there is a degree of kind of exchange between people to kind of some degree. Speaker 0 00:05:32 And I think that for me, that's where something like this could really take off is if you were able to solve kind of the one to many limitation currently of, of both, you know, podcasting and, and things like Instagram stories or an Apple at clubhouse is that we talk folks, listen, I would love to get on and just talk to a bunch of people, you know, open up a zoom room with our thousands of listeners every week and just kind of live chat. I've talked with people, but, but that's just not, not how it is these days. Speaker 1 00:06:00 Yeah. I mean, it's, it's largely packaging up the mediums, right? And it's, it's, it's either a zoom session or it's a YouTube live stream, but again, it's just, it's clubhouse look, I'm bias. Of course I love, you know, when I was a podcast where I had to walk to school and this is like, I am just a diehard podcast or for many reasons, which we'll get into in a moment, but there's a lot of fanfare there. I think they just do well with their marketing and it's just people latch on to the next new thing. And this is what happens is this gigantic snowball effect. And it's just like fresh new, uh, but I feel like it will eventually lose its steam for many of the points that we're we're about to make. But I think it'll lose its steam in the future Twitter spaces, which is again, being developed by Twitter. Speaker 1 00:06:46 Their definition is spaces as a place to come together, built around the voices of people using Twitter. Your Twitter community spaces are live for as long as they're open, once ended. They will no longer be available publicly on Twitter. And I guess this sort of point number one with these platforms, as opposed to traditional podcasting, these are moments in time. These are the quick discussion, maybe not quick, but these are the discussions you have at say, like going to a conference when those things are illegal and you could talk to people in the hallway, a couple people joined in like, Oh yeah, I recognize you. And I've seen you before and you had these quick little conversations and then that moment's over and you all disperse and go back for lunch or go into the talk that you were going to. These things don't last, these conversations don't last, which is what makes it so difficult for me to really want to adopt something like this, because it is just a moment in time and it evaporates into the ethos into the ether, I should say. Speaker 0 00:07:39 Yeah. And I think that, you know, man, I think we're going to try to give a really kind of fair and balanced perspective of this because you know, we are a podcasting company. So, so something like social audio in a way, at least, you know, at the very least, I think competes for kind of brain cycles with everybody, when you say like audio, right. You know, so it's social audio, clubhouse, Twitter spaces, podcasting, all the other kind of content you want, you want to create. So, so I do think that in a way it is a competitive medium to podcasting. And so we don't, we want to try very hard to not be defensive and be those guys yelling to get off our lawn. But I think there are definitely a kind of good and bad things too, to this medium. And I think that when I look at it, yeah, definitely the live requirement for these, these types of content is especially now with COVID maybe why they're so popular, right? Speaker 0 00:08:29 Like we see a ton of people coming into podcasting because they want connection, you know, connections, a term we use internally. And, and like with our customers a lot is personally have not seen my family in a year and a half, you know? And like that's really sad. Right? And we are all seeking connection with other human beings that are not the three other people for me that live in my house. And I think that's why, you know, clubhouse hit at the time to say like, we're all just desperately looking for a way to connect with people. And so we're willing, I think right now at least to say, okay, I have to be online at three o'clock Eastern to hear this clubhouse room open up. But I honestly think it's just me when, you know, life quote returns to normal, which may be, you know, in a few months, we're all going to be super busy, again, catching up on all the stuff we haven't had a chance to do in the last year. Speaker 0 00:09:24 And there is no chance that I am going to put down all the other stuff I'm doing with work and my hobbies and my family to say, I'm going to go listen to something that this person has to say at three o'clock and it will never be available again, because I would much rather like listen to that podcast episode when I can listen to it any time and download it again six months from now and listen to it again. Uh, so for me, that is, I think why this is so popular and people are accepting this frankly, like limitation and why I think it kind of has a shelf life. Speaker 1 00:09:53 We like to say that the success of a traditional podcast comes from everything else that you do around it. So it's like, you know, we say, uh, doing the episode of publishing the episode, your work has just begun right now. It's like it's promoting it, it's driving traffic there to keep people interested. And yes, the flip side of the coin, like you just mentioned is that live component is also an advantage. You know, if you're doing a, even a moderately produced podcast, intro outro, you know, you script the intro, you show notes with the interview guests, you do editing. There's a lot of work involved there. A clubhouse can be or Twitter spaces or the social audio thing can be a lot more raw and unscripted and it doesn't have to take as much. You can pick up the phone quite literally in that moment in time breaking news live event, you know, just gathering people together on the moment. Speaker 1 00:10:44 A great idea comes to your head as a creative artist or something like that. And you bam, you just get people into the room and it's very, very fast, right? Which again is, that's the advantage. And then you use that as a sort of sneaking into one of our other points. But like you use, you leverage that as a creator. You don't put your, maybe you do put your best content there, but you don't. I would say you don't put your best content there. You don't put that content there that you want to be archived and searchable and forever lasting, but you use it as a way to say that you're here and point people into another direction, uh, into the direction of your, hopefully your podcast, your traditional podcast. Right. And so that's the particular advantage for me. You had mentioned you wanted to talk personal brand. I think that's something that somebody building a personal brand would certainly leverage right to that, to a large degree. Speaker 0 00:11:30 And that's where I see this, especially in the, the kind of prosumer and like professionals kind of sphere is consultants and salespeople and, you know, industry leaders feeling like they need to have a bigger personal brand and looking for ways to amplify in amp and extend the reach of their personal brand. And I think for that absolutely social media in general, and I would call, you know, something like clubhouse, a form of social media is a fantastic way to do that. And it is, you know, maybe kind of the first touch that you have to, somebody that's new to kind of your world is, Hey, Oh, you know, I saw this person on clubhouse, or I read this tweet by this person. I saw their Instagram story. I'm going to go learn more. I'm going to go learn more about that person that is their website or their podcast, or the place where their stuff lifts, you know, their company's website. Speaker 0 00:12:20 And so I think that kind of just take this back of, like, we hear so much about this, you know, kind of trend, what does it mean for, for all of us out here trying to, to kind of further a brand. It is. I think that there, there absolutely is a place for, for tools like this in extending the reach of your brand. And I think that that's, that's where this is like really a sweet spot. I think it is. Yeah. You can hop on here. It's a different type of medium. It's quick, it's spontaneous. It's not maybe highly produced, but yeah. It's not where your contents go live forever. It is just a way to kind of get outside of your existing circles to kind of have your message, be exposed to new people that can then kind of go and find your other stuff. Speaker 1 00:13:02 Okay. So I'll go back to my bias. Now we'll flip, we'll flip that coin and metal metal go after it again, there is, how do you stand out in clubhouse? Right. Especially as personal branding. I think one of the things that clubhouse is really taking some heat on, and this isn't necessarily Clubhouse's fault. This is humanity's fault. This is social media's fault, but there's a rash of multilevel marketing and people just, uh, hunting for that. Money-making experience that exclusivity. If you join this clubhouse, we'll teach you how to get rich kind of thing. And that is a massive, they're making a lot of headlines about these types of clubhouses that are launching and they're, and they're closing them down like really quick. So there's a certain level of, you have to be careful in this new social media space these days. And then like, as a creator, who's like doing this for good reasons, building that personal brand. Speaker 1 00:13:56 How do you stand out amongst all of this noise? I think it's too early to even say like, this is an episode on how to optimize your clubhouse headlines and your, and your clubhouse profiles, but you know, it's going to come, right? Because that's what happens with also we look at it as marketers. We ruin everything. Marketers ruin everything. That's a term. I think I heard Gary Vaynerchuk say way back in the day. I don't know if he stole that quote from somebody else, but something that I say quite often, because I think it's true. We get in there, we look at it, we optimize, we find what, you know, we try to get all the most gold out of that mind before everyone else finds it. And then it turns the optimization, Allah, Facebook pages, Ella, Google rankings, all of this stuff, LinkedIn outreach, LinkedIn outreach, all of these things. So from a personal brand perspective, yes. Certainly leverage it. I don't know how to optimize it yet. I don't know how one stands out. And by the way, just like Craig said, it's not a globally open platform. It's just mostly visible in the U S and only on iOS, Android users aren't even there yet. Right. So the, the flood Gates, while they feel like they're open, we're not even at the tip of the iceberg yet with this. Speaker 0 00:15:03 I think the other thing to consider, and this is a kind of general social media best practice is to kind of go where your audience already is. Right. And so I think that's something to know. And again, talking about Twitter and Instagram is like for, for us, Matt, I think that in kind of the tech and the content world, Twitter is probably the place where a lot of our audience are our kind of target audience hangs out. And so I do think it's too early to tell if clubhouses that plays to, I, you know, because it's audio, I would say probably a lot of people that podcast will, will end up being on clubhouse. But if you're a business trying to reach other businesses, I think that unless you're trying to re you know, kind of build up your personal brand, something like clubhouse is probably not going to be a place that you're going to see a lot of meaningful traction. Speaker 0 00:15:51 You might get a bunch of people in your room and listening to what you say, but that won't lead to, you know, leads or prospects or anything like that down the road. And, and conversely, like if you're a food blogger and Pinterest is an Instagram or your, your kind of places to reach people, I don't know that that like the medium of audio is going to translate really well to the, to the people that you're trying to reach. And so I might just not take this as seriously. Uh, so I think you have to kind of think about who you're trying to reach, where they already hang out, whether this as like a relatively new medium is going to be similar to where they're already hanging out and they're more likely to be there. And, and if so, I would invest some time in and, you know, exploring it. But, but if not, I think it's easy to say that's just at this point, at least not for me, Twitter space, Speaker 1 00:16:35 I've heard through the grapevine, through the technical grapevine, that just the technology and why it's taking so long to be rolled out is I think Elon Musk did a clubhouse with Vlad, which was the, I forget his last name, the co-founder of Robin hood app. And of course that's been in the news. I don't know if it was his conversation or his conversation with Kanye West on clubhouse, but he took the clubhouse down, right. It was just, it was too much of an audience. It was too big, the platform wasn't ready for that sizable audience for these two celebrities being in a room, which again is, you know, this alert, this attraction to clubhouses, you can be in this room with, you know, celebrity types, chatting away Twitter spaces. I heard just because of the infrastructure and the size and the maturity of Twitter, Twitter spaces is built for the millions, right? Speaker 1 00:17:20 So it is built to sustain these things. And to your point, if your audience is on Twitter, which a large part of maybe tech, journalism, content, creators, I feel like are on Twitter. It's going to make a pretty big dent in that space. And the other thing is, if you're on Twitter, the app, and you're in a Twitter space, you're still in Twitter, so you can multitask, right? So you could be listening to your favorite, which I've already experienced. I hop into a Twitter space. I don't even know what it's called, Twitter space room, a Twitter space. And it just, you know, once you click into it, you see everyone in the room, you see the hosts and then you just swipe down and it just sticks to the bottom of the app. And then you can, you know, doom scroll your Twitter feed. Like you were like, you were already doing, you know, or like get people's tweets, see other people in the room. And this is what's really cool is you can click on other people's profiles, you know, and see them in the room and explore their Twitter feed. So I think that's going to have a pretty big win for Twitter. And that's exciting for me as a podcast, or is it, I guess for me, the whole clubhouse exclusivity thing being locked into this app over here, it's just not, I don't feel like it's for me, Twitter spaces. I feel like it's for me because I spend a lot of time on it. Speaker 0 00:18:33 The thing that Twitter and Twitter spaces reminds me of is Facebook groups. We have a Facebook group podcast. Heckers if you're not a member yet, please go and join. But the reason that we decided to start our community on Facebook golly years ago at this point is because it's so easy for people to find and to opt in and to participate. And I think that if you listen back even to, to kind of some of our previous episodes, maybe we'd like ward at member space, you know, he talks about, yeah. You know, Facebook, you know, love him or hate him is super, makes it super easy for you to interact on their platform. And, you know, it's your feed or it's somebody's page, or it's a business, and then it's a group and then it's an ad or whatever. It's all really seamless Twitter, I'm sure is doing the same thing to where you're already on Twitter. Speaker 0 00:19:21 Yeah. Oh, the space just opened up. I'll go join while I'm listening. I'm going to go do other stuff. If you think about that kind of ability to get exposure to other people that you aren't already kind of in your network or that you don't already have connection with that's low-hanging fruit, right. Is like Twitter spaces because you know your brand, or you already have a presence on Twitter, opening up a space or joining a space and participating in, and kind of networking around with people there a lot easier than, you know, clubhouse, this brand new thing. You don't know how the, the kind of web weaves together of, you know, you were on there and meeting other people and, and kind of getting value from a networking perspective. Yeah. I mean, in that respect, I would put a lot of my chips in the, in the Twitter basket Speaker 1 00:20:04 Thoughts. And we, we've already hinted at this a little bit about how these, these are just moments in time. They, they disappear. I've looked at the terms and I'm not a lawyer, but I've seen other people talk about this too. On social media, I've looked at the terms of clubhouse. The awkward thing is you have to share your entire contact list in order to get into, in order to invite somebody into clubhouse, which is just a weird feeling when I looked at the terms and they say that they don't store the data right now, in other words, the content of your clubhouse, the audio let's say of clubhouse, they say they store it while the clubhouse is, is going for any kind of like harassment or any kind of like malicious stuff that's happening that they need to relisten to. If somebody reports that clubhouse right for security and safety reasons, is, is there a reason why they store it? Speaker 1 00:20:50 So what are your thoughts on the ownership of content versus a traditional podcast where you do own the content? And it is a body of work. And as a creator, like it's important to me to have that body of work. Although I feel like I delete most of my videos that I can relate because I'm just like, I don't need, I don't need to store all this stuff, but my audio, I like to save it. And I'll tell you why I've been using the, one of the advantages of that is I've been using the, uh, the descript app a lot with our podcasts. And what I find to be the most valuable there is I can quickly go back into my audio search for those moments in time of that podcast episode. Like the other day I had interviewed somebody and I saw somebody on Twitter asking you a question that was relevant to an interview that I did. And with these scripts, I could go back in, grab that 20 seconds of this interview that answered that question and shot them a audio gram of the person answering the question. So now you have like this body of work that's, archivable searchable. You can repurpose it. What are your thoughts on that ownership on social audio versus the podcast? Speaker 0 00:21:51 Yeah, I mean, it's, it's not even, I'm going to say it's not even a discussion, right. But it, but it's just very clearly social media, right? Social audio, social, anything else is really transient. You don't have any control over the content. You don't have any ownership over the content. You don't have any ownership over your audience there. And I think the epitome of that ownership is like your website. It's yours. You own that domain. As long as you keep paying for it. And you have a host and are on WordPress or Squarespace or whatever your website is there and it's yours and you do whatever you want an email list, right? So if you have MailChimp or drip or convert kit or whatever, those contacts for years, you can take them and go somewhere else. You can add people to it, delete people, whatever. And your podcast is the same, right? Speaker 0 00:22:34 Casos if you're using our WordPress plugin, it's really all on here domain. But, but even you have your host, your podcast on Castillo's, Casos lets you export all that content to go somewhere else. If you decide to, to, you know, put it all on your own DigitalOcean droplet, or take it to another host or just download it on your computer, cause you want to have it all the, the ownership and the affordability of that is massive is massive, especially for certain types of content, I think. And I think that's really kind of what we keep coming back to Matt is like this content that is your best content is the stuff you want to live forever in the stuff that like you're saying, you want to refer back to. I think you have to own it. You have to own it. If, if you're in this for the long run, if you're one of these multi-level marketers, that's, that's trying to do make a splash and in six months, and you would be a Bitcoin millionaire or something like that, maybe go in, I'll go all in and clubhouse. But I don't see a lot of people that I really respect building a longterm brand on someone else's platform in general. And that's not just clubhouse. That's that's really anything else. Speaker 1 00:23:35 I think that's important too. Well, the cast dose, but certainly to me as well is as a creator, how do you monetize the content? And right now this is all going to be largely speculative on, on what clubhouse is going to do for monetization. But I've seen again, just some things thrown around where, but of course you could do, people could pay to go into a clubhouse room as sort of like the most obvious. I think thing that I think people say that they'll do, maybe they do some, you know, dynamically generated ads that play. When you jump into a room there's a 15 second audio that plays from like Pringles or the craziest one that I've heard so far, which I got, I hope is not the case, but it's like the clubhouse, uh, currency sort of like a Twitch, like Twitch TV. You sort of, you have like this currency to a degree where it encourages creators to continuously publish on the platform because people are subscribing to you with this sort of like Twitch currency, right. Speaker 1 00:24:31 And you know, for every dollar spent on you, you get whatever 40 cents and Twitch gets 67, whatever the breakdown is. But I could see clubhouse going that route to where it just incentivizes people to continue to create content on clubhouse. But also like, man, just like we've been saying, I just don't get into these platforms because I feel like the same effort I put into creating that content. I'd rather just do it in something that I could save regardless of the money and here at Casos we have private podcasting, you know, let's not, let's not be afraid to tout our own horns here. You have the private podcasting and you can monetize it and own it right here at castles. And I think that like, those are natural things for me, but any crazy thoughts on how clubhouse should or should not, uh, monetize. Speaker 0 00:25:12 Yeah. I mean, I think the one that you, that you touched on earlier is selling your contacts or aggregating it and anonymizing it and selling, uh, you know, the demographics of your contacts. I think that that is possible. And I don't, I don't mean to be malicious with, with any of this kind of speculation. I think, you know, there are business, the model of, you know, how to monetize social media has been proven, uh, several times over. And I think that the obvious one is ads. The fact that they are able to control the content creation, the, that, that, you know, content creation owner and the audience experience, because it's all in their app makes monetizing a lot easier than conventional podcasting where, you know, the files on the Casto server and it's downloaded to your phone on overcast. And it's just gone right from our perspective and from advertisers perspective. Speaker 0 00:25:58 So there's no kind of view of like, Hey, did you get to minute 12 worth? That ad is, uh, or anything like that. I mean, if you look at the profitability of companies like Facebook, it blows everything else, almost out of the water, right. It's why they're such a massive company is that ads, if you really are able to get the targeting down or a super profitable business model, and you know, if clubhouses savvy enough to be able to know about the, you know, the content owner and the people that are listening to serve the right ads, I think that could be the way to go. But frankly, if not, you know, and I, I was just Googling it cause I had forgotten the name, but Matt, do you remember Babel from, and I feel very old saying this like six ago, six or seven years ago was really similar to this, right? Speaker 0 00:26:47 It was a room where you could have a bunch of people, but only three or four or four people total, including you could be talking at the same time and was just like this massively popular for about nine months. And then just like gone and not, not to say that that will happen. But I mean, I was in the podcasting space at that point. And, you know, with podcast motor, with my first podcast business and everybody coming in the door was saying, how do I podcast from bevel and kind of like this? I mean, the conversation is really similar. Okay. You know, we need to figure out how this works with podcasting. And I think that was a little, a little more straightforward, but I think that's the cautionary tale that, that rings in my mind is like, this has happened before, you know, like this flash in the pan has happened before. And like, I just don't want anybody that listens to this show to say, I'm going all in on any of these things where you don't own the content and the, and the platform can just shut down tomorrow or change the rules and you don't own your content and all the, all your listeners are just gone. Like, we've seen that so many times. Speaker 1 00:27:50 Yeah. Right. Time, right place. You know, you look at, like you said, pandemic, people are just wanting connections now. And it's something new it's really striking at the right time. You'd say Babel will, you know, innovation sometimes before the marketers is ready as like the kiss of death for, for products and businesses. There's a thing at play here though, that, which is being exercised is that audio is a fantastic medium to connect with people because clubhouse works so well. Not because of everything else we said, but because we've, we haven't really said because of audio, because it's not video camera, it's not highly produced. It doesn't have to be highly produced. It's quick, it's clean. It's that connection. And we've seen, we've seen this in other areas. We've seen the decentralization of audio throughout the, the history of humankind radio stations, right. Traditional radio stations. Speaker 1 00:28:39 However, I don't even know what the history of radio state, I don't know when the first radio station was, it was launched, but I should look it up. But then when they went to like ham radio, right. Where you could operate your own radio stations with other ham radio hosts, if that's the word that they use, you know, and I remember my dad having one and like being in it, my uncle certainly was, I don't even know when they were doing this probably in the seventies, sixties, seventies, I don't know, uh, just toying around with it. And that was like a cool thing. Imagine, imagine that feeling back then as like a ham radio operator being like, we can have our own radio station, which, which is like crazy to say these days, but it's like now it's, it's that continued access and control that we have is. And then now traditional podcasts, as long as you preserve the RSS feed, anyone with a device can access it. And it's, it's decentralized. It's not just coming from clubhouse. So we see these sort of things go up and down. And I think it's audio is largely the, the winner here, which is good for us, I guess, at the end of the day, Speaker 0 00:29:39 I mean, you touched on it, Matt. And I think that, that, like if we're to draw the, maybe the closest analogy in podcasting too, to kind of this social audio, it, it is private podcasting, right? It is, it is all the best things, right. It's asynchronous, right? You record people, listen, download it, stream it wherever they want on the go. You own the content, right. It's yours. I mean, it's hosted on a place like Casos, but you can take it with you and go somewhere else. It lives forever. And you own the listeners, you don't enlisters, you own the content and contact information of the listeners, you know, their name and email address. And that is, I think in the, in the currency of like connection is the highest, right? So you're able to reach out to those people, you know, shoot them a message. Speaker 0 00:30:21 Hey, you know, just release this new episode in our private podcast. Go, go take a, listen. It's already downloaded on your phone. I challenge anybody to be able to do that with any kind of social media. And I'll just say again, though, I do think social media is a very good way to kind of expand your network, but the goal of expanding your network is to get people into it and right. So, so I think that's how I think about it, right. For, for myself personally, and for our business is we do a little bit of social media to kind of share our message with people who don't see it already on our website, in our email and our podcast. But the goal of all of that is to bring people back into our world, to join our email list and to listen to our podcast and to see our blog. And so I think that's just kind of the, the kind of best practice of like content ownership for the long run. Speaker 1 00:31:08 You want to test drive what a private podcast feels like at Castillo's dot com go to Academy dot Castillo's dot com slash private. You can just jump right into our private podcast that I host for our Academy listeners, or just join the Academy. You can get it there. You can get it that way to But if you want to see what that feeling of a private podcast is like to subscribe, to throw it into your podcast player and to get the sort of raw and filtered private content, check it out. fantastic episode today. Craig, thanks for joining. Thanks for joining your podcast. It was a lot of fun. Thank you. Thanks for having me, everybody else. don't forget to subscribe to that channel. Check out all the videos that we're doing, especially the clubhouse one and others. All right, we'll see you in the next episode.

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